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New Testament + Homosexuality by inspiredcreativity New Testament + Homosexuality by inspiredcreativity

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I have added a HOT-LINKED Table of Contents and much more Information and References.

This is an in-depth look at how Jesus and the early Christian Church accepted Same-Sex Loving Relationships and Same-Sex Sex within the context of a committed relationship.

I hope that his helps some of you reconcile your Christian Faith with your Homosexuality or Bisexuality. For others it will act as a handy guide to COUNTER Homophobic Christians who use Scriptures as a weapon against us.

GAY FRIENDLY CHURCHES NEAR YOU

Please note that you need to check with any specific church you wish to attend, since individual congregations may not be welcoming to you.

Churches that Perform Gay Marriages, Ordain Gay Ministers, and teach that Homosexual Sex, within the confines of a Gay Marriage or Committed and Loving Relationship, IS NOT A SIN:
    The Metropolitan Community Church [MCC] www.mccchurch.org/ (Gay Church)
    The Episcopal Church www.ucc.org (The United Church of Christ)
    The Evangelical Lutheran Church
    Presbyterian Church
    The Unitarian Church
    The Unitarian Universalists www.uua.org/
    Unity School of Christianity
    Community of Christ
    Evangelical Anglican Church In America
    Reconciling Pentecostals International
    The National Catholic Church of America
    Catholic Apostolic Church in North America
    United Catholic Church
    Orthodox-Catholic Church
    Evangelical Catholic Church
    Reformed Catholic Church
    Christ Catholic Church
    Ecumenical Catholic Communion
    Liberal Catholic Church
    Independent Catholic Christian Church
    Independent Greek Orthodox Church of the United States (Greek Orthodox)
    Moravian Church
    CANADA:
    United Church of Canada: Affirming Churches Only affirmunited.ause.ca (Not Covenanting Churches)
The following are as above or at least welcoming, but based on a Church-by-Church basis, as set by the Congregation:
    Lutheran Churches
    Quaker (Religious Society of Friends)
    Pentecostal
    Christian Church (Disciples of Christ)
    Baptists
    [Very few Baptists churches are welcoming to Sexual Minorities, but some are. Go here www.awab.org to find welcoming Baptists churches.
    United Methodist Church [Some Methodist churches are welcoming to Sexual Minorities. Go here www.rmnetwork.org to find welcoming Methodist churches.
WARNING: There are many so called "Gay Friendly" Christian and Catholic Churches around who invite you in, then preach to you that you live in Sin.
________________________________________

In this paper, I often present multiple approaches and argument for passage in question. For example, translators have use the word Homosexual when no such word even existed when the scriptures were written. Translators of many modern printings have inserted words that are designed to inflame hatred.

Despite new correct translations, Bible publishers are under strong economic pressures to turn a profit. If a translation of lets say Leviticus 18:22 were included that did not generally condemn at least male homosexual behavior, their sales would drop precipitously. They are unlikely to deviate from traditional interpretations, unless they were preparing a translation specifically for Christian and Jewish liberals.

WORDS CAN KILL GBLT KIDS. There are Christians whose words drive GBLT CHILDREN TO THEIR DEATHS IN VERY LARGE NUMBERS. It may seem that the Christian Fundamentalists are harmless, but the poison and lies they spread do great, great harm. Since many of these Fundamentalist Christians believe that their Bigotry and Discrimination is Justified by the Bible, they could care less if they drive children to suicide. After all they are doing "God's Work."

PLEASE NOTE: I wrote this paper to help people, not to generate religious arguments, debate or hate attacks. This is not the proper Forum for that. If you do not agree with this paper that is your right, as it is your right to state that. However, I will not engage in counter arguments because the only thing homosexuals ever hear are the constant litany of lies of conservative fundamentalist Christians. No more such is needed here. Any attacking or Hate-based comments will be HIDDEN.

Please note that I am not a Christian, nor of any other religious faith. I do not believe in a God you would recognize, nor in a Heaven or Hell, but I am a Spiritual man in my own way.  I choose to be a good person without the threat of a hell nor the reward of a heaven. I do so because it is the right thing to do.  I have studied Christian Theology over the years, as well as comparative theology.

Matthew Barry ©2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013
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xxAnimexChocolatexx Featured By Owner Mar 12, 2015
Words cannot described how much i love this. I so agree that homosexuality is not a sin and it's extremely saddening to see the hypocrisy of many religious people doing terrible deeds that are against their own religion.

I'm honestly depressed with humanity. I'm catholic and i never considered homosexuality to be a sin despite being straight (or so what i know about myself). In fact, i'm never aware of this bigotry from religious people throughout my life until i explored much in the internet and was shock to see so many artiest bashing on religion. My parents and school were pretty silent about whether homosexuality is a sin. My classmates do make gay jokes like "Oh that sound so gay" and all those jokes that were using gay means stupid in their context, but not once did anybody question about homosexual being a sin or not. When i asked this to my parent, to my relief, they are okay about homosexuality, but they believed that being homosexual is not normal. They told me about my cousin who turns out to be gay, much to my surprise, and his family is fine with it, but believed gay is not normal. I'm at least glad that his family is not abusing to him to the point where he must force to become straight because unfortunately that what most Christian fundamentalists do nowhere days. 

It is ironic because in the Bible, Jesus never stated anything about homosexuality. They say that homosexuality is added to the Ten Commandments with the 6th Commandment: "You shall not commit adultery" But honestly, that commandment can go down to many similar deeds that you probably don't know what is a sin and what is not. You said something about the original text does not include homosexuality is a sin even under the Ten Commandments. Could you explain that for me? Additionally, if homosexuality is a sin, then heterosexuality is a sin. For most fundamentalists and back in old days, they viewed sex to be a sin because it makes you lose your innocence and makes you corrupt, which is stupid in my opinion. They use Mary and few other characters as a justification for why sex should not be a good thing. Jesus was born out of the Virgin Mary (which is viewed to be the ideal womanhood during the dark age), he himself is a celibate hero and all the other Apostles are also celibate from what i know. In all the four Gospels, Jesus never said what love should be and that he is silent about all the types of love in the Bible. He only said love others as you love yourself.

From what i observed on your research and attitude toward religion despite you being a humanist and not believing in God, you are very unbiased and i'm glad that you are. I cannot find any reliable profession to help me finding the contradictory on the Bible without any research behind the writings or background of it, usually it's either a bias person who would do anything to bash the religion or a Christian who have no idea on what is behind Jesus'teaching. but you really help with plenty of evidences to back it up. Not to mention your writing is eloquent. With you not using slang term, sarcasm, or tone that would make you look like bias, you clearly convey what you want to say through your writings, serious and flawlessly.

So is it okay to ask you for some info i'm concern with that involves the question to certain Christian, other religious, or American's treatment toward homosexual people topic in the future. I'm very fascinated by this and the history behind the corrupt church. So far i have some questions that concern me:

1. Is homophobia and Christian hypocrisy really strong in US or is it universal in the western world? I lived in Canada and i'm not sure if the treatment is the same as here. Because like for example, Canada legalized gay marriage in all of its 12 provinces, much to the Westboro Baptist Church's hatred, always promote their hateful, homophobic speech in America that Canada and UK prevent them from entering. So this could be the case?
2. Is masturbation a sin? I'm aware that many myths on masturbation are not true and that they benefit and i know this part of God's creation, but for me i feel uncomfortable. Masturbation is a sin to me because i'm getting addicted to it and i fear this will stray me from doing other important activities. Plus what does the Bible say about it (including the original text)? I really need to know because this is my main problem to me.
3. Is transgender surgery a sin? All i know from religion class that sin means away from god and others, damaging the creation you are given. People who went under transgender surgery willingly must face from difficulty of having their organs change and possible rejection. Correct me if i'm wrong on the transgender surgery. Because, it not like we choose which sex to want to be we we born so saying that you want to be an opposite sex physically is against God's creation. Unfortunately, trans also suffer treatment by fundamentalists...
4. There's a popular theory that everyone is bisexual, is this true? Because they say despite us claiming our certain sexual orientation, we are never honest with ourselves. Mostly we would be attractive to one sex, but little or no to other sex unless we witnessed something attractive so much that i will make us question our sexual orientation. Sorry that ramble, cannot properly explained it but this will explain it to you better than what i can: tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php…
5. Is it okay for a person to have mixed beliefs or share religion. Okay like me, i'm Catholic and i believed in God and Jesus and his teachings, but i also believed in Buddha and his teaching as well. I don't believe in reincarnation and despite with the Buddhist faith not believing in God or Gods, their teachings qualifies on the life that i agree with and feel relate to. Like how Buddha explained that desire is the source of suffering. This is true in many ways. There also other teachings that Buddha offered that is very related to Jesus. So for me, i'm technically Catholic with Buddhist faith influence. Another examples is Gandhi, who is said to be a Hindu with Jainism influence and Japan practice multiple religion's customs. Hence the phrase: Every Japanese is Shinto when he is born, a Christian when he marries and a Buddhist when he dies.
6. Is swearing a sin? Nowhere days, people say "Oh my God" or "Jesus!" out of exaggeration, not out of cursing against God or any religious figure. So would the context here be more important?

That's all the question for today. I know that it's going to be comfortable of talking with you. Your work and references have definitely help me and if i every come across a Christian homophobia, i will show them this. I wish to pray in the future, homosexual will no longer be consider as heretics and one day be accept among them. But knowing that the world must balance, this will probably never happen. Thank you for these interesting insights, and i praise that you fight and overcome the bigots that attacked you. You're a strong person and i hope you will stay strong even when the suffering will be harsher. May God blessed you (knowing you don't believe in God, but i'm sure God even cares for those who don't believe in him).
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:iconinspiredcreativity:
inspiredcreativity Featured By Owner Mar 13, 2015  Professional Digital Artist
Hi :)

Thank you very much for your words of support and the thought you have put into this issue.  It is unusual for heterosexual youth to not only recognize that homophobia is wrong (even if you believe it a sin) and even more unusual to reach out in support.  So I applaud you.

Just so you know, I was born and raised Catholic and was an altar boy who wanted to be a priest, until my priest told us boys, “Any boy who is attracted to another boy is an ABOMINATION in the eyes of God, doomed to burn for an eternity in the everlasting fires of Gahanna.”  I tried to kill myself days later.  I was 13. Had I died, we all know the priest would have seized, Good riddance to bad rubbish. There was no compassion or love in that man.

I am unbiased about religion itself because it gives people comfort in their time of need and suffering then good for them. I make a big distinction between Spirituality, teachings and religion itself.  For example, the teachings of Jesus are a far cry from how most Christians live their lives and choose to interpret his teachings.  Even in Buddhism, the practice of Buddhism is a far cry from the teachings of Buddha, and in Islam,the practice of it by most is far from Mohammed’s teachings in the sacred Qur’an. Religion and couches take teachings, interpret them, add their own rules and regulations, usually based on concentrating power and wealth, and controlling people.  But frankly, this is what most people desire.  They would not have to worry about theology, and loving your neighbor stuff, just give some rules to follow.

I have also studies some of Islam and Buddhism and Native American Traditions, but most of my research is in Biblical history, Catholic/Christian theology, and the culture and time of Biblical Judea.

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

The interesting thing about Jesus not saying anything about homosexuality or same-sex sex, is that Jesus was born, raised and lived in Judea for approximately 34 years.  Judea was part of the roman empire at that time and largely Hebrew Judea was occupied by not only many Roman Garrisons (soldiers) but also many roman citizens, especially in the urban areas, where Jesus was raised and his father worked as a Carpenter.  Bt-the-way, a carpenter back than was like the Middle class, it was a good paying job and much of the work of construction and furnishings was for the wealthy Romans.

Homosexuality was actually seen as an integral part of both Greek and roman sexuality.  Coptic Greek, the language that the New Testament was written in, has no word for same-sex sex or homosexuality.  It was just part of sexuality.  Roman men were expected to marry and produce and heir if possible, but most roman young men had to serve in the Roman army to be a citizen, and homosexual contact was rampant there, due to extended tours of years.

Jesus had to have know of homosexuality/same-sex sex, but chose to NEVER mention it, as witnessed by Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. Jesus did mention things he thought were important, sometimes multiple times, such as not judging other, seeing to your own soul. If you want to understand Christianity, the first thing to look at is the Two Great Commandments:

THE TWO GREAT COMMANDMENTS

If you are Christian Leaning, there is something incredibly simple given to you by Jesus Christ, to be your sole needed guiding light for determining your spiritual path and in determining Right from Wrong:

MATTHEW 22 [The New American Bible]

"Teacher, 21 which commandment in the law is the greatest?"

He said to him, 22 "You shall love the Lord, your God, with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.

This is the greatest and the first commandment.

The second is like it: 23 You shall love your neighbor as yourself.

24 The whole law and the prophets depend on these two commandments."

Technically, you need no other rules in Christianity than these two Great Commandments. Christ says that ALL of the law of the Old Testament and New Testament DEPEND on those TWO GREAT COMMANDMENTS. Obviously, if you love God and you Love your neighbor, you will not rape, covet, steal, lie, discriminate against them for being Gay, or any other of it.  But this is not good enough for people.  People demand to know EXACTLY what to do and what not to do to get in the pearly gates of Heaven.  People do not NEED tons of rules, but people WANT tons of rules to guide them. However, there is a huge problem with focusing on the detailed rules of what to do and what not to do.  You can follow every rule, break no rules, and even give to charity, yet still have a heart devoid of love.

GETTING INTO HEAVEN
You can follow all of the rules, and break no rules, even give to charity and do good works, and not get into Heaven—WHY?  Because, YOU MUST LOVE GOD, and YOU MUST LOVE ALL OF YOUR FELLOW MANKIND.  You must have Universal Love for your Fellow Mankind, or at least that is the Spiritual Goal.  When Jesus turns the other cheek, when he is being robbed and offers more, it is because he loves the thief and loves the one doing him violence. Most of us will never get there 100%, but one needs to be trying to do so, to follow GOD THE FATHER'S GREATEST COMMANDMENTS.

Next, if you really want to understand the message of Jesus, you spells it all out in two great sermons:
Sermon On The Mount Matthew 5 - Foundation Of Christianity,
In the Sermon on the Plain, the New Testament, Luke 6

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

In Christianity, ANY sex outside of marriage is considered a sin, and some Christian sects go to the extreme of saying that ANY sex , even in Marriage, is a sin if not for the direct purpose of procreation (breeding babies).

TEN COMMANDMENTS: Read the ten commandments.  Do you see anything even hinting at homosexuality (there are different translation):

–. I am the Lord thy God
1. Thou shalt have no other gods before me
2. Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image
3. Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain
4. Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy
5. Honor thy father and thy mother
6. Thou shalt not kill (some use the word murder)
7. Thou shalt not steal
8. Thou shalt not commit adultery
9. Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor
10. Thou shalt not covet (neighbor's house,wife, servants, animals, or anything else)

ADULTERY: the definition of adultery, from the Hebrew (language and law of the Ten commandments), and the Coptic Greek of the Christian translation (later into Latin), is: Sexual intercourse of a married woman with any man other than her husband. The crime can be committed only by and with a married woman; for the unlawful intercourse of a married man with an unmarried woman is not technically Adultery in the Jewish law. Under the Christian Biblical law, the detection of actual sexual intercourse was necessary to establish the crime (Lev. xviii. 20 [A. V. 19]; Num. v. 12, 13, 19).

Whoever told you that the commandment of adultery includes homosexuality is a liar. Neither Jewish or Biblical law suggests anything of the sort.

Another thing, the Ten commandments say, “Thou shalt not kill (some use the word murder),” yet Christians have been committing genocide (some at the orders of Catholic Popes), torture, mass murder, wars instigated by churches (as aggressors, including the Crusades, and Capital Punishment, where in the United States we murder people.  Murder is the intentional killing of others.  This is why Christian Quakers refuse to kill in wartime (but will work in medical aid in war), and will not kill even to defend themselves, or as punishment.  The vast majority of Christians read  read “Thou shalt not kill/murder,” followed by a lot of non-existed fine print, claiming it is Ok to murder int he the name of God, murder to punish people, and to protect yourself.  Yet, Jesus expressly say to turn the other cheek, not to defend yourself.  In other words, Christians often do what they want, then find ways to justify it, or use words in the bible to crucify, torture, and murder homosexuals, and justify it with the word of God, as they did with slavery.  The Supreme court of the United States got around the Bible by claiming black people were not actually humans, and were sub-human and not covered undertake Bible.

HOMOPHOBIA: Almost all homophobia and atrocities against Sexual Minorities is directly related to Christianity and Islam.

For research, you can check out:
GLOBAL MAP of Homophobia: www.citylab.com/politics/2014/…
State Sponsored Homophobia Report: ilga.org/what-we-do/state-spon…


NEAR PAST:
If you would like to see read about the virtue, murder, imprisonment, brutality, and harassment.discrimination agains homosexuals, in my life time, please see  THE TORTURE OF HOMOSEXUALS by inspiredcreativity The Torture Of Homosexuals - 1950s to 1980s all at the hands of Christians.

TODAY:
Homosexuals are being executed, tortured and imprisoned in large parts of the world today, especially in Arabic nations, many other Muslim countries, Africa, Russia and Uganda.  Extreme Homophobia and persecution/discrimination/harassment  of Sexual Minorities is strong in Eastern Europe and parts of of South America.  See the above link to the global map.

. . . . . . . . . . . .

Next, the only place in the New testament Translations from Coptic Greek to Latin and the modern languages, occurs in Paul, such as in Corinthians and Romans.  At the time of the translations, Christianity had destroyed most of Greek and Roman writings, and then the surviving texts were typically bleached, turned 90° and then used to write Christian Prayers, etc, on.  Translator then claimed that two wades, paired together meant same-sex sex.  Yet, this same word pair never means that anywhere else in Coptic Greek writings.  It is something translators made up, a lie.  I go into great detail explained the two words and they actual usage, as well as any word pairing, showing that the translations about homosexuality are a lie.  Did you need me to going into the detail for you?

Some accuse me and the many scholars and experts in Coptic Greek and the culture of Biblical Judea of question the word of God, but nothing could be furthermore the truth.  We question the lies of the TRANSLATORS, NOT the original Coptic Greek manuscripts written by the apostles, etc.

. . . . . . . . .

YOUR LIST OF QUESTIONS:  I don’t have time to give supportive bible references to my answers, sorry.  I do volunteer Peer counseling to Sexual Minority Youth in crisis, so I do not have much of any tome to spare.

1. Answer above.

2. NO.

The most common argument against masturbation is that it is self-abuse, but this is not directly ever stated in the bible.  The typical Christian Biblical argument is: Corinthians 6:18 (NIV): “Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a man commits are outside his body, but he who sins sexually sins against his own body.”  This totally depends on how you interpret “Sexual Sins” because it does not go on to say. Some Christian churches do not include masturbation in this and some do.  Some start to quote the Old Testament, which I can argue into the ground.   Many church rules are hinged in very vague things like this.

i should also point out that I list many Christian and even Catholic churches who believe that Homosexual sex is NOT A SIN, when in the confines of marriage/holy union (homosexual long-tern committed romantic relationships).  This means than many Christians and their churches do not interpret the original Coptic Greek of Paul, as having to do with homosexuality.  this shows how the translations about homosexuality is not at all universally accepted by Christian, scholars, Christian archaeologist and theologians.
. . . . . . . . .

Addiction is defined as when something has reached the point where it is interfering with your ability to be happy, content, fulfill your dreams (like school, career, art…), relationships (freinds & Romantic), etc.  If masturbation has reached that point, then I suggest working at setting limits, like an average of 1 to 2 times a day.   Masturbation relieves sexual tension and actually helps you avoid being too tempted to be sexual before you are ready.  Is your masturbation interfering in your life, other than guilt and shame?  Because eliminate the illegitimate guilt and shame your feel and it may not be a problem in your life.

Boys and girls used to be married by ages 13 to 15, and did not live very long.  Your biological imperative starts young, and this is an imperative given by god. It is not a bad thing.  However, if you indulge in actual sex, this can disrupt your life with unwanted pregnancy (when you are not prepared to care for a baby or support it) and possible disease.  I advise my young people to please at least wait for someone you truly care for and he/she cares for you, and ideally you wait for love.  Since you are Catholic, you are expected to wait until marriage, if you believe in that.

I can tell you that the one thing that will damage you is to have love and sexuality torn apart, and this happens when someone engages in sex with a lot of partners, with no emotional connection (Hooking-up).  Pornography addiction can be a problem if people decide that it is easier than trying to meet real people, date, and look for love and healthy relationships.  I somehow doubt you are addicted to either masturbation or pornography.

Some Christians say that homosexuality is unnatural, yet it is fond in many thousands of animal and other species, inlacing monkeys/apes, giraffes, bison, penguins and on and on.  This so obviously part of Gods plan.  The genes involved with homosexuality are ties with Fecundity (producing or capable of producing an abundance of offspring) in families, passed via the female line, which is a big reason why homosexuality survives evolution. The most abundant families tend to produce the most homosexuals, and the more Fecundity a family has, the more it thrives, expands and survives.

By the time you are born into the world, your sexual orientation/ gender identity is set, and is even found in brain differences in infants.

3. In Islam, even they do not see Transgender surgery as a sin, because they, in their twisted way, see it as correcting a persons gender.  When we are in the fetus, the sexing-out of the fetus takes place during two periods, first the brain sexes-out an then the body.  rarely, the brain starts sexing out as one gender, and something happens to cause the body to sex-out as the other gender.  these people feel like they are in an alien body from a young age.  It is the BRAIN that determines true gender.  A transgender person who decided to do top, bottom or both surgeries, is only correcting the physical body to match the gender of their brain.  Remember that there are brain differences between genders, and between Straight and Gay brains.  Also, remember that Transgender is NOT a sexual Orientation, it is a gender, and thus a Transgender person will have a Sexual orientation.  A Female to Male Transgender who is attracted to females is actually Straight, even though pre-surgery it is a female looking body wanting to be with females.  After surgery it is a male body seeking females.

Try to remember that Religion lags far behind science, as seen by the Catholic church killing people for saying the earth was round and the earth revolved around the sun, etc.  this continues to this day.  The Catholic church now says that people really are born homosexual, which you would think proves this is Gods plan, but the church then says god expects such people to suffer all their lives celebate, to prove their faith in god.  For some reason, god randomly picks millions of people to suffer like this, but not the rest?

4. Refer to my paper Are You Gay, Bi or Straight?
DETERMINING SEXUAL IDENTITY
For many people, there is no question at all about what their Sexual Orientation and Identity are, starting at a very young age.  But for many others, it can be very confusing and traumatic.  ALL of us are a blend of Straight and Gay. People who are almost completely Straight or Gay usually know how they are different from very young ages. Everyone else will have some someone degree of Confusion and Questioning.  Many young people have a small amount of latent homosexuality, enough to confuse them, but not enough to be a Bisexual. Others can be confused by having a friend they love dearly. Some young people are late bloomers, becoming sexually aware later than most others.  For others, there is also confusion about Gender.  For others, they may not have sexual feelings at all.
Some people may not become aware of their homosexual nature, or may not recognize, realize, or acknowledge their homo
Are You Straight, Gay, or Bi?
.  Please notice that ALL human beings are on a sexual orientation spectrum, a mix of Straight and Gay, distributed over a bell curve.  Please see this image to we an example of a Bell curve: mmiller.gnomio.com/pluginfile.…

The majority of humans are mostly Straight, or Primarily Straight and Secondarily Homosexual.  If you are 85% Straight and 15% Gay, you would never notice consciously notice your Gay component.  If you are 75% Straight and 25% Gay, there may be enough gay in you to enjoy a sexual contact, but not enough to form a romantic relationship.  If you are 60% straight and 40% Gay, there might be enough gay in you to form a romantic relationship.

Sexual Orientation is NOT determined by sexual attraction, it is dreaminess by Romantic Attraction, who you romantically want to share your life with.  If you are a woman sexually attracted to both men and women, but find you are only ever romantically attracted to men, then you are effectively Straight, not bisexual, in my opinion.  If you are romantically attracted to both men and women then you are bisexual.

But to answer your question, all humans are a blend of Straight and Gay.  If you choose to define Bisexual as as any human attracted to both male and female, then this would cover most people on earth, but that is an idiotic definition because it has no practical application.  Your sexual Orientation is ultimately about who you fall in love with.

Also, appreciating beauty in NOT sexual attraction.  I am very Gay and have never had a sexual response to a female, but I find many females to be amazingly beautiful, so do not confuse the two.

5. Spirituality is all about your personal connection to your belief system/God(s).  Religion is a group affair, like an exclusive club with tons of rules.  You can be a Christian and follow the teachings of Jesus, and follow teachings of buddha, without being in conflict with the teachings of Jesus.  When I was a boy, the Catholic church taught us that if you were not Catholic, you automatically went to purgatory or hell.  Churches are made up of PEOPLE, and people are VERY FALLIBLE, and their bigotry, biases, and desire for power and control over others is powerful, and influences churches.

I have a spiritual belief system, although i do not believe in Gods as most people define them.  I have studied multiple faiths and find a lot of overlap and interesting ideas.  I love parts of buddhism but do not believe in reincarnation.  I love parts of Native American Traditions, but not all of them.  I love many teachings of Jesus.  I would bet I live a more Christian-like life than most Christians and adhere to a very strict moral code of my own.

It is YOU who will answer to your god (if that is your belief) not your church, not your preacher or religion.  You answer for your own behavior.  To blindly follow rules and edicts from churches can put you directly in sin, like christian sects who teach women to be completely subservient and slave to men, all justified in Paul and the old Testament. Do you really believe this is God’s intent, after reading what jesus says?

Sin depends on INTENT.  If you know in your heart that something is wrong, especially if it results in harm to another and your benefit, and you do it anyway, this is sin.  But we humans need tolerant from mistakes.  To me, sin is repeating these mistakes, choosing not to learn from them.  If you steal a pencil from a classmate and feel horrible, then decide, I will never do this again, and you never did, is there a black spot on your should?  These are things I asked myself.

Churches makes up vast numbers of rules, but now many are directly founded in the words of Jesus, and some go against the intent of Jesus.  Just read those two sermons above, and see how Christian churches do the opposite of what Jesus says.

6. Again, for me, sin is in the intent.  I frankly avoid swearing.  I went to sea on ships where every few words were swear words, and it would bleed into my words at home, so I decided to stop it.  Sometimes I blurt out sometime if I stub my toes or something.  If you say, “God dammit’ without thou have hitting your finger, did you mean to damn god? If you say “Oh my god,” often that is like a pray, like when you see a car accident.

If a native person in in a Brazilian jungle is following tribal practices Christians feel is a sin, is he or she committing a sin?  Some African tribes do wife sharing as a larger family group, sharing tasks, child rearing etc. They intend no wrong and work hard to provide for their children, etc.  I think it is arrogant for Christians or others to presume to know God’s intent, mostly based on words supposedly translated through “prophets” without mistake.

The books of the New Testament for haggled over in 3 North African Synods, deciding to ban certain books of the bible and keep others, under the heavy influence of the roman empire (starting with Constantine and the first Council Of Nicea) who want a Patriarchal structured church so that it could be used as the official Empire church,  Including support for slavery and subjection of women.  Luke spoke of women deacons, and the gnostic church (Easter Christian church) had female priests.  But they lost the vote in the first counsel of Nicea, and the gnostic were ordered to convert or die, and they were hunted, men , women and children and murdered, all their texts and writing burned and destroyed (until found in the dead sea scrolls).

Anyway, they put together this Bible, sent it to the Pope, who then declare that every single word intros bible was as if God him self wrote it.  So it is only the word of one Pope who declared each book of the bible to be true, and not the boss that were not included, like the Gospel of Mary, and a  number of other gospels.  It is PEOPLE telling you what god said and meant, and then they go further and make up even more rules, claiming it is to help guide you to heaven.

Ok, this took way longer than I expected and I must run.  All the best,

Matthew
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:iconxxanimexchocolatexx:
Thank you very much! I, again, appreciate your effort on writing and answering my questions. The more i'm reading and seeing the error translation of the Bible, the more i'm losing faith in humanity. 

When i asked about whether masturbation is a sin, swearing is a sin, etc, i was thinking about what my religion teacher show me the examples of breaking the Ten Commandments. Such as:
3. Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain - swearing, blasphemy, etc
8.You shall not commit adultery- homosexuality, masturbation, adultery, sex outside marriage, etc

You know the drill. These ridiculous examples and so-call of how these are sin to the Ten Commandments probably come from the Catechism of the Catholic Church - the source of all the Catholic's teachings. It said stuff about how such as committing homosexual practice, masturbation, and especially suicide is capable of sending one to hell. Considering that the CCC took teachings from the mistranslated texts as you explained here, i wouldn't be surprise since this could be the source of all the bigotry that are committed from the Christians.

Whoever said that committing a sin send one directly to hell clearly don't know the Christian beliefs/core. There's always a misconception about Christianity on how you can only go to heaven by good self or deeds and can only go to hell by bad deeds or self. This is entirely wrong on Christian core beliefs because one, this is part of Zoroastrianism. Zoroastrianism believes in the duelists of good vs evil even on the account of going to heaven or hell and all while it influenced the Abrahamic religions (Christianity, Judaism, Islam), two, Christianity don't believe in the typical "good/bad deeds can send you to heaven/hell" concept because Jesus said this: “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." They say that if you believe Jesus died for your sins, then you will go to heaven because Jesus sacrifice himself for everybody to go to heaven. If you don't believe Jesus died for your sin, then you won't go to heaven because how strong one believes in Jesus and truly do his true teachings is capable of going to heaven. If you think about the "good/bad deeds can send you to heaven/hell", it's extremely contradictory because everybody is in the grey morality and everyone sin. Since everyone have their good and bad self, which plane they're going to? Heaven or hell? Sin is inevitable and that why Jesus is send down for us to be forgiven instead of suffering with our sins.
The reason why i asked these questions is because i'm curious with all the contradictory in the Bible such as Paul's letters until you answered it for me. I'm more interested in how false translation are created.

I'm hoping that most Christian can read some of your amazing analysis because these are extremely important. They should know the history on the errors that has been edited in the Bible and deeds that are committed due to using the Bible as an excuse for their agenda. Famously such as the the Spanish Inquisition and the violent actions toward the homosexual you just mentioned. Ironically i find those who claimed that they're doing in the name of God are only committing blasphemy against God because they're giving God or their religion a negative reputation and claiming that this is God's work will only remove what He truly want.

As all while i found myself heterosexual and thanks to your "Are You Straight, Gay, or Bi?" paper, throughout my whole life i believe homosexual is not bad because here's the thing: homosexual love others the same way straight people love others and why should this be a condemnation? My cousin who i mentioned to be gay, right now treat others normally like most people do unlike what people thought about the stereotypes of gay people. He doesn't throw himself on every guy he meet, doesn't have Stockholm syndrome, or act mentally disable because he has no mental problems contrast to how media depict them. He's getting good marks, shy and timid, and act formal toward me so really, i see no problem in him whatsoever as oppose to the hypocrites of the Church. Speaking of media, i heard people's complain on how the media depict gay people.

I admit that i don't truly understand how the gay people suffer. They have to suffer torture, murder, and to hide their sexual orientation. Additionally, to be excluded from the majority? I can tell it's way worse than simply dying alone or losing a love one. This is thousand times worse! Force to endure pain from your abusive religion and family who only preach on to change your sexual orientation, to have nobody by your side, to not speak up, and getting torture simply because they're gay, this is brutal. I know what they did, but i feel that i don't understand how they feel. To go through that much suffering all while i'm just here ranting on about how humanity shit themselves to this brutality, i'm not making things better. This can only continue if people can help others especially someone like you, who knew this experienced of sadness. Not understanding one's feeling is usually why saving (instead of helping, there's the difference between saving and helping) someone from bullying or suffering fail. 
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:iconinspiredcreativity:
inspiredcreativity Featured By Owner Mar 20, 2015  Professional Digital Artist
I am happy that I could be of some help in answering your questions.

Did you see the big news that the American Presbyterian Church now performs Gay weddings?  They also belief that the Bible is not against homosexuals or homosexual sex, within the confines of marriage/holy union.  This idea of mistranslation is not coming from a few homosexuals, it is embraced by major Christian churches and a number of smaller ones.

I have written a bit more to help clarify some things you just raised:

When Jesus gave us the Two Great Commandments, this is the roadmap to heaven. It is not enough to just love God, love your spouse, children and best friends, you are required to reach a spirituality where you can have a Universal Love for your fellow mankind, and that included the person who murdered your son, raped your daunter and robbed you.  When you understand this, it makes it easy to understand when Jesus talks about turning the other cheek, and when a robe demands your shirt you offer him your pants kind of thing.

The next step is to understand what is meant by ‘LOVE’ in the commandments. The dictionary will tell you that love means: an intense feeling of deep affection.  Bt this definition is vernacular and not theological.  If you look at all forms of love, family, friendship, romantic, your cat or dog, your car or doll, etc, they all have certain things in common. The common roots of all forms of love are:  Affinity, Rapport, Connection, Sharing and Intimacy, but the most important of these things is  Connection, Sharing and Intimacy.

We can Share of ourselves, Connect with others, and be Intimate with others, on a number of different levels, such as: Emotionally, Spiritually, Socially, Intellectually, Sharing of the Heart, Physically, Sensually, Sexually, and the Sharing of Space and Time (living together, roommates, growing up with siblings).

Therefore, how do you apply this to all of your fellow mankind?  For me, the easiest way to get there is through COMPASSION and look for the things that connect us all together, what we all share.

Something else critical to finding universal love is FORGIVENESS.  Forgiveness is very misunderstood by most people. We constantly so how many Christians demand retribution, demand the death penalty, claiming they can never have closure until the murderer of their child is also murdered (via the Death Penalty), etc.  But this is contrary to the teachings of both Jesus and Christianity.  There is a big difference between Justice and punishment, and revenge and retribution, with revenge and retribution being things of evil. Seldom does the death of a perpetrator ever give closure.

FORGIVENESS

You cannot have true happiness in your life without Forgiveness, and it is a central tenant of my life.  Forgiveness is a key to mental recovery and healing, but few understand it.   What does it mean to forgive?  Most people think of forgiveness as when someone begs for forgiveness, but this is the official DEFINITION OF FORGIVENESS:
    Forgiveness is the process of LETTING GO of resentment, indignation, anger and other negative emotions, as a result of a perceived offense, difference or mistake, and ceasing to demand punishment or restitution, while replacing the negative emotions with positive attitudes, including compassion and benevolence.

    Forgiveness is NOT  the same as condoning (failing to see the action as wrong and in need of forgiveness), excusing (not holding the person or group responsible for the action), pardoning (granted only by a representative of society, such as a judge), and forgetting (removing awareness of the offense from consciousness; to forgive is more than just not thinking about the offense).
Mahatma Gandhi contended that, “The weak can never forgive. Forgiveness is an attribute of the strong.”

Benefits of Forgiveness
    :bulletgreen: Aids psychological healing through positive changes in affect
    :bulletblue: Improves physical and mental health
    :bulletyellow: Restores a victim’s sense of personal power
    :bulletorange: Helps bring about reconciliation between the offended and offender
    :bulletpink: Promotes hope for the resolution of real-world intergroup conflicts
    :bulletred: Forgiveness teaches us EMPATHY
    :bulletpurple: Forgiveness improves your Self-worth.
Negative energy and feelings, like a desire for revenge, a desire for retribution, hate anger, resentment, rage, bitterness, jealousy, and so on, all act as DESTRUCTIVE agents that work to ruin your life and ultimately kill you.  I told you before: Hate is like you drinking a bottle of poison, then waiting for the person you hate to die.  Negative emotions, feelings and energy create great stress in your life, they limit your ability to love and be happy, they wear-out your heart faster, increase your blood pressure…

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

If you have learned two languages, you see how complex translation can be.  For example, let us say you fluent in English and French and you have been asked to target a novel written in French in 1780. In the case of the the New Testament, you are dealing with a gap in time and culture and language drift of over 2,000 years. As a Translator, you should immediately realize you have three major problems:

First, French words in 1780 might have meant different things than they do know and some words are not even used today, and some concepts and science we know now, they did not know then. This is language and cultural drift.  Words have changed meaning in my life time.  I grew up with he word ‘Charity’ meaning “Universal Love for your fellow mankind,” and now the word is translated in the Bible as ‘Love,’ and people now use the word to means giving to those in need.

Second, the way words are used are influenced by the culture of the time.  Back in the 1970s, when I came home from being at sea and the Academy for years, he told me he bought a new stereo system and it was really BAD. So i suggested he take it back to the store, and you looked at me like I was insane.  I had no idea that ‘bad’ now meant really good.  I am a ‘Valley boy’ or Valley girl’ depending on how you see it, lol.  This meant that I grew up in the San Fernando Valley long ago.  You know, “Gag me with a Spoon.”

If you were translating these things 250 years later, and knew nothing of the culture, you would not translate ‘Bad’ and awesome, you would translate it as being of poor quality; inferior or defective.  You would have no clue what a ‘Valley Girl’ is or what ‘Gag me with a spoon’ means.  Do you even know what ‘Groovy’ means, a word popular of my youth?

Third, the problem of the Translator’s cultural and personal biases.  When you watch the news or read a newspaper or magazine, what you see and read is heavily influences by your feelings, views and opinions.  If you are pro-war or anti-war, if you are Christian, Jew, Buddhist, Muslim or Hindu, if you are younger in age or older in age, if you are an American, or Russian, or Democrat or Republican.  This bias of interpretation can result in two people reading the same thing and interpreting it in opposite ways.

For example, if the Christian translators of that time and culture are homophobic bigots, then they are likely to interpret words and phrases to be against it, even if that is not the intent of the author (such as St. Paul).

In the first millennia of the Catholic church, they were trying to court pagans to join the church and they even changed the birth of Jest and the death of Jesus to match pagan holidays.  Homosexuality eventually became associated with Paganism, since it was so acceptable and openly practiced by pagans in Europe and the far East, etc. There was a turning point in the Church, after the first millennia, where the church switched from trying to convert european pagans to destroying them, hunting them down and killing them, exterminating them.  You can also see this attitude play-out when Christianity came to the Americas and Africa.

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .


BIBLICAL EXAMPLE — Just one small excerpt from my paper: The New Testament & Homosexuality New Testament + Homosexuality by inspiredcreativity

THE ETYMOLOGY OF ARSENOKOITES

It is tempting to look at the etymology of Arsenokoites (used in Paul) to find out what it means. However, the etymology of a word gives only its history, not its meaning. In English for example, the etymology of the phrase lady killer suggests either a lady who kills, or a person who kills ladies, but it really means a man who knows how to charm ladies. The only reliable way to determine the meaning of a word is from how it is used, in what context it is used. The way Arsenokoites is used indicates that it does not mean Homosexual. However, the etymology of this word does give a clue (and it is no more than a clue) about what it means.

Arsenokoites is a compound word, formed from arseno- which means men, male humans, and -koiati, which refers to the penetrating partner in sexual intercourse. When these two parts are put together, forming a word meaning something like man-penetrator, it is not clear if it means a man who penetrates, or a man who is penetrated, or it could mean something completely different. We can get a little more context from the Septuagint, the Greek translation of the Old Testament.

The word Arsenokoites appears in the Septuagint, in Leviticus 20:13: “hos an koimethe meta arsenos koiten gunaikos.” It might be the case that Arsenokoites is a contraction of arsenos koiten. If it is, then Paul possibly meant to repeat the Leviticus prohibition. That restriction is not a general prohibition of male-male sex, but is a prohibition of a specific sexual act . If Leviticus is the origin of the word, and the origin of the word gives an indication of the meaning, then Arsenokoites refers to just that sexual act, and that is a sexual act that both same-sex and opposite-sex couples can practice. John the Faster’s use of Arsenokoitia supports this suggestion. Therefore, Paul’s uses of Arsenokoites are injunctions against certain types of sexual activity, not against same-sex relationships.

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

HOMOSEXUALS SUFFERING FROM HOMOPHOBIA

How Sexual Minorities suffer from homophobia depends on where you life.  One thing the vast majority of us share in the world is growing up being told by the culture, peers and often parents and churches is hat you were born bad that there is something wrong with you and if anyone finds out, you will be hated, rejected, abused and discriminated against, and live in fear.  This might be felt a little or to the extreme, depending on where you live.

You are typically forced to live a LIE, hiding who you really are, often unable to talk to anyone about it. I have worked with young people who even had parents tell them that they would not care about sexual orientation, but still be terrified to come-out to those parents, because the stakes are so high.

It is also much harder to identify other like you, which is very isolating, and it is very difficult to impossible (depending) to form any kind of romantic relationship like all the other kids do.

You can start to feel like you are on the outside looking in, never a part of the social fabric around you.

Sexual Minority people are objectified, seen as this OBJECT FAG (rather than as individual people) which most people identify with a series of LIES about Sexual Minority people.  You grow-up and then have to live in a culture with constant homophobic jokes, put-downs, harassment, discrimination, stereotypical lies and comments and being seen in stereotypical ways that have nothing to do with the truth of reality. In the USA, we have a State passing a law to ban cities and local governments from preventing discrimination against Sexual Minorities.  In other words, some cities had passed laws prohibiting discrimination based on Sexual Orientation, and now the State government and the majority of the people of the State want to prevent that and allow full discrimination.

If you are in an area of high bigotry, such as Russia, where people hunt sexual minorities to abuse, torture and sometime murder you, you live in constant terror.  Arab countries and many other Muslim countries, as well as Christian countries, you face imprisonment and/or death.  Discovery of your homosexuality would mean the end of your life as you ever knew it, no career or work, no freinds or family, constant humiliation, harassment, abuse and facing starvation.

The more suppressive the culture and laws, the more difficult to downright impossible it can be to ever form a romantic relationship, reducing homosexuals to occasional sex at immense risk.  It can be a very lonely and scary life.  This is why the suicide rate is so high, especial with Sexual Minority Youth.

Christian and Muslims claim the high suicide rate is from their deviant lifestyle, but kids killing themselves as young as 11 years old is obviously nothing about lifestyle.  The high suicide rate is from the direct hatred and discrimination of Christians and Muslims worldwide. This is where people feel they can be bigots and to discriminate against and harm others, without guilt, because they claim their religion gives them permission.

Even in most movies and TV shows that have Gay and Lesbian characters, they usually depict them in very stereotypical and inaccurate ways that do not represent the vast majority of Sexual Minorities.

Anyway, that is generally what most Sexual Minority people in the world face.

All the best,

Matthew
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:iconlorado69:
Lorado69 Featured By Owner Jan 19, 2015  Hobbyist General Artist
This must be from some american Bible... Facepalm 
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:iconinspiredcreativity:
inspiredcreativity Featured By Owner Jan 21, 2015  Professional Digital Artist
Hi, Actually, all references match pretty much all english language translations of the Bible.  I have an Application that allows me to compare up to a dozen different bibles translations for any given passage.  In some places I actually show a number of different translations for the same passage, so that people can see the variances.  I did used a Catholic bible and King James bible a lot, but also others. 
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:iconlorado69:
Lorado69 Featured By Owner Jan 21, 2015  Hobbyist General Artist
I've read some of it but it all sounds like opinions and the ideas of "modern" commentators. The teaching of the Church has not changed since Christ. It has been explained and studied, but there is no way something like that would have gone from wrong to right (or vice versa). Even the modernist, liberal popes of late have not gone so far as to condone homosexuality, though they have done so many other terrible things that go against almost 2,000 years' of doctrine and tradition.

Yes, I am a Catholic myself, and certainly am open to any and all discussion, but this is something that goes against the Catholic grain so much it just can't make sense. Of course, we are not against the people themselves, it is only sin that we abhor (in ourselves or others - because it offends the One we love: our Creator). It is only by the grace of God that we are not murderers, thieves, politicians, etc (slight sarcasm). It is grace which helps us. I pray for all, including myself and my homosexual friends/acquaintances. We all need help - some in this area, some in other areas.
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:iconinspiredcreativity:
inspiredcreativity Featured By Owner Jan 23, 2015  Professional Digital Artist
The only true words of Jesus, as witnessed by his disciples, are in the original compilation of New Testament, which was completely written in Coptic Greek.  Every single translation since then is an interpretation of the original text by men, men who are very fallible. The first translations into Latin and eventually into English (King James) were done without a sound knowledge of the Coptic Greek used in the time of Jesus in Judea. I give a detailed look at the correct translations of the two words, or word-pair that are claimed to mean Homosexual sex in Paul, but in fact do not mean that at all based on modern scholars of Greek language and culture from the time of Jesus.  You cannot translate a language without it being put on the cultural context of the time, in Judea, in the time of Jesus.  Coptic Greek does not even have a word for homosexual sex.

I could give you the full dissertation on the translations but you would not listen anyway, because alas New Zealanders are apparently narrow-minded and closed-minded, according to you.

I can give you examples of translation changes just within the last 50 years that have changed the meaning of the text, such as Paul's "Faith, Hope and Charity" being translated in a number of bibles, including the St. Joseph's Catholic Bible, to "Faith Hope and Love."  The primary definition of 'Charity' was "Universal Love For Your Fellow Mankind."  Substituting "Universal Love For Your Fellow Mankind" with "Love" is a fundamental change in the intent of the text.  This is a progressive change away from the original New Testament that has been taking place for over 2,000 years.

Pope John XXIII commission Biblical scholars to go back as far as possible to original texts to do a new translation into the modern languages.  The english version of that contains the chance I just illustrated above, along with others.  My copy of the Catholic Bible has a chapter dedicated to the problems of translation.

Finally, when God coded homosexuality not only into the DNA of humans but into thousands of mammals and other creatures of Nature, it had to be done with purpose.  The official Catholic catechism states that homosexuals are born that way.  But now people like you come along and decide that God's intent was to create a class of human beings born a sin.  It has been proven that it is impossible to convert homosexuals to heterosexuals, despite the lies you have been told. Science is clear on this.

When you decide that a class of people born black, or born any other way, are inherently bad, then you are a bigot, as this perfectly matches the definition of bigotry.  Hiding behind religious beliefs does not make it Ok. The New Testament does NOT say that homosexual sex is a sin.  The New Testament does say that ANY sex outside of marriage is a sin.  It does not say a marriage conducted by a priest. I happen to be in a legal marriage and I have many freinds who were married in a Christian church (I can give you a long list of Christian churches doing Gay marriages), but any long-term fully committed and loving relationship that is intended to be a marriage, is a marriage.

You might wonder why it is that so many Christian churches do NOT see homosexual sex, within the confines of a marriage or long-term committed relationship, as a sin.  Entire branches of Christianity have seen the light by looking at the true translation of the Coptic Greek.

The list is growing all the time, including some Catholic churches, but here are some I grabbed for you:

Churches that Perform Gay Marriages, Ordain Gay Ministers, and teach that Homosexual Sex, within the confines of a Gay Marriage or Committed and Loving Relationship, IS NOT A SIN:
    The Metropolitan Community Church
    The Episcopal Church
    The Evangelical Lutheran Church
    Presbyterian Church
    The Unitarian Church
    The Unitarian Universalists
    Unity School of Christianity
    Community of Christ
    Evangelical Anglican Church In America
    Reconciling Pentecostals International
    The National Catholic Church of America
    Catholic Apostolic Church in North America
    United Catholic Church
    Orthodox-Catholic Church
    Evangelical Catholic Church
    Reformed Catholic Church
    Christ Catholic Church
    Ecumenical Catholic Communion
    Liberal Catholic Church
    Independent Catholic Christian Church
    Independent Greek Orthodox Church of the United States (Greek Orthodox)
    Moravian Church
    CANADA:
    United Church of Canada: Affirming Churches Only
The following are as above or at least welcoming, but based on a Church-by-Church basis, as set by the Congregation:
    Lutheran Churches
    Quaker (Religious Society of Friends)
    Pentecostal
    Christian Church (Disciples of Christ)
    Baptists
     [Very few Baptists churches are welcoming to Sexual Minorities, but some are. Go here www.awab.org to find welcoming Baptists churches. United Methodist Church [Some Methodist churches are welcoming to Sexual Minorities. Go here www.rmnetwork.org to find welcoming Methodist churches.
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:iconlorado69:
Lorado69 Featured By Owner Jan 23, 2015  Hobbyist General Artist
Yes, the Catholic Church and all those protestant churches are in quite a bad shape at the moment. Our recent Popes, since Paul VI are teaching things which go against almost 2,000 years' of Church teaching. They have nothing to back their modernist teaching with. Whereas the traditionalists have all of Church history and dogma behind them. The fact that the modern Church and the world are becoming so "buddy-buddy" is an obvious sign of this, for Our Lord did not come to make friends with the world, but to overcome it. When our Popes cave in to media pressure and pressure from liberal lobbies, that is not a good sign at all. It is what we call the "crisis of the Church". 
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:iconinspiredcreativity:
inspiredcreativity Featured By Owner Jan 25, 2015  Professional Digital Artist
Actually the old church got things totally wrong through absolute ignorance and science proved them wring again and again.  The church teachings had to change accordingly. This was the purpose of Vatican II, to bring the church teachings in alignment with reality.
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:iconlorado69:
Lorado69 Featured By Owner Jan 26, 2015  Hobbyist General Artist
Vatican II is completely ambiguous and the fruits are there for everyone to see: mainly only elderly priests left (very few vocations); young people are not interested; rock concerts in churches; priests who do not believe in the true presence; laity taking over the tasks of the priests; empty churches; strange, unheard before teachings; religious no longer interested in wearing their habits, etc. and watching TV in monasteries; homosexual infiltration of the priesthood resulting in the rape of little boys, etc., etc., etc.

No, the new church (which has a very short history of only 46 years) has gotten everything completely wrong. Christ did not come upon earth to make friends with all the other religions - he came to fulfill the prophecies and to establish His kingdom on earth (which can not be a mish-mash of all religions).

"Reality" is not liberal teachings and giving way to pressure groups. Reality is reality. The teachings of the Church should not bend down before the teachings of the world (which are per definition in absolute conflict with the teachings of God and His Church - as He has said many times Himself).

Science has not proven the Church wrong at all. If you're talking about evolution, don't forget it is only a theory, and many scientists are against that theory.
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:iconinspiredcreativity:
inspiredcreativity Featured By Owner Jan 27, 2015  Professional Digital Artist
Vatican II has nothing to do with the exodus of both priests and Catholics.  There is no proven connection.  Their were some very unhappy traditionalists who believed the mass should only be said in Latin (I had to learn Latin to be an altar boy) and the many other changes, but it actually resulted in more people remaining in the church.  The sharp decline happened not just to Catholics but to other mainstream Christian religions as well. This loss has more to do the better education of people and a liberation of youth culturally, who see a big disconnect with the practice of Christianity and their beliefs, while other left because some churches stay n conflict with science, rather than embracing it.  Science does not disprove God or the teachings of Jesus.  The Catholic church is so out of touch with the rest of humanity that it will probably continue to decline until it makes some major changes.

Who are you to say What the intentions of Jesus were about other religions when Jesus never said anything to support your position.  You dare to put meaning and words into the mouth of Jesus that were never uttered. Jesus in fact had a very, very clear message of Love, of turning the other cheek, of non-violence.  I highly suggest that you actually read Matthew, Mark, Luke and John to see for yourself what the message of Jesus is. 
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(2 Replies)
:iconmeltedeyes:
MeltedEyes Featured By Owner May 10, 2014
I'd like to see an in-depth study about how the BIBLE "accepts": lying, gossip, murdering, and worshiping idols, please.
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:iconinspiredcreativity:
inspiredcreativity Featured By Owner May 12, 2014  Professional Digital Artist
The tone and the wording of your comment, along with its lack of contextual reference to my paper, appears to me to be just another Hate Attack and not worthy of further response.  If you continue to comment in this way, I will ban you from my site.
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:iconlibertades:
Libertades Featured By Owner Apr 26, 2014  Hobbyist General Artist
One last curious question: what's so different about incest then?
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:iconinspiredcreativity:
inspiredcreativity Featured By Owner Apr 26, 2014  Professional Digital Artist
Hi,  I'm not sure what you are asking about, or what the context of the question is (What is incest different from?). However, until you get back to me, I can talk a bit about incest in general and see if that answers your question.

The vast majority of incest that that has taken place in human history is heterosexual incest between father & daughter, brother and sister, and mother and son.

The reasons why we are taught that INCEST is wrong are:

:bulletgreen: Any children produced through incest causes genetic inbreeding, causing a higher rate of genetic defects and anomalies, such as hemophilia.

:bulletblue: Sexual relationships between adult and child family members are almost always EXPLOITIVE in nature and damaging to the child. In other words, the older person is typically taking advantage of the younger person.  It is seldom a matter of equal attraction and desire—it is a matter of one person USING the other person for their own sexual gratification. Also, younger teens have not yet developed an association between Love and Sex, and having an adult family member being sexual with a teen can cause serious problems later in life for that child. 

:bulletyellow: A child needs to have adult love authority figures who give the child security, safety, trust, and unconditional love. If you insert sex into the mix, it breaks that fundamental parental connection. Psychologically that parent is no longer able to offer unconditional love, safety, security, trust and advice to the child. The child may have no one to go to, to deal with the many emotions and problems that come with being sexually active.


INCEST & HOMOSEXUALITY:  Homosexual incest is much less common (father/son, mother/daughter, brother/brother, sister/sister) than heterosexual incest. Homosexual Incest will not produce any offering, so there is no worry about genetic problems. However, when parents are involved, you get the same problems and damage that are mentioned above for heterosexual incest.  But what about homosexual incest between siblings? This could be exploitive in nature, especially if the younger sibling is too young for sex, too young to understand enough to make such decisions about sexuality, or if one of the siblings is simply using the other for sex.

MY OPINION: Setting aside questions of Society and Religious Morality, incest Involving Kids Could Be Ok When ALL of The Following Are True:

:bulletorange: It is Homosexual sex (no offspring will be produced).


:bulletpink: The relationship is same sex Siblings or Cousins (like two brothers or two sisters).

:bulletred: One is not forcing, coercing, manipulating, exploiting, intimidating, or unduly influencing the other.

:bulletpurple: They are within about 4 years of age, and one is not less than 15 years old, or they are within 3 years of age, and one is not less than 14 years old.
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:iconlibertades:
Libertades Featured By Owner Apr 26, 2014  Hobbyist General Artist
I understand, but how come people can say being homosexual is right and incest is wrong then? What does the bible say about it? Because people could open up an argument with this.
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:iconinspiredcreativity:
inspiredcreativity Featured By Owner Apr 27, 2014  Professional Digital Artist
First of all, there is a lot of incest in the Bible. Examples include the sons/daughters of Adam and Eve (Genesis 4), Abraham marrying his half-sister Sarah (Genesis 20:12), Lot and his daughters (Genesis 19), Moses’ father Amram who married his aunt Jochebed (Exodus 6:20), and David’s son Amnon with his half-sister Tamar (2 Samuel 13).  It is It is undeniable that God allowed incest in the early centuries of humanity.  By definition, if you start with only Adam and Eve, you will have many generations of incest.  Then God seems to command against incest in (Leviticus 18:6-18).  Note that Leviticus actually says, “None of you shall approach any one of his close relatives to uncover nakedness. I am the Lord."  It is then widely assumed that, "Uncovering nakedness" means having sex.

Homosexuality and incest are completely different things.  Homosexuality is inborn—homosexuals are born that way, while incest is a choice and is a sexual act.  Homosexuality is a Sexual Orientation and Incest is a sexual act.   Homosexuality describes the sexual orientation of the brain, the way the brain is programmed for sexual attraction, sexual desire, and how to respond to pheromones. Incest is typically predatory, using, and exploiting those too young to choose for themselves, too young to understand fully what is going on, or unable to defend themselves. Int he vast majority of cases, iciest is RAPE, both legally and morally. In the vast majority of cases, incest has a victim, and that victim is damaged by the experience, especially if it is multiple times and long-term.  Please note that I do not use the word 'always,' as there are some exceptions (like same-sex siblings close enough in age and both old enough to choose what they want).

The very conservative traditional interpretation of scripture is that homosexuality is a choice, but science has proven this interpretation to be completely FALSE.  Many ignorant Christians might try to refute the science, just as they do in other ways, but all it proves is that they choose to be ignorant.  Homosexuality is NOT a choice—you are born that way—God made homosexuals—homosexuality is part of God's plan.

Christians who link homosexuality with incest, pedophilia (sex with prepubescent children), bestiality (sex with animals), sexual perversions, insanity, etc, are BIGOTS in the worst way.  In fact, science shows that the vast majority people who practice incest, pedophilia, bestiality and other sexual perversions are actually HETEROSEXUAL (Straight) people. These Christians make these claims without any biblical evidence and without any scientific evidence.  Science and the empirical evidence of human history prove that these Christians are wrong.  They are deliberately lying to inflame hatred.

Therefore, any person who tried to link incest with homosexuality, biblically, is not only wrong, but probably hate-based and dishonest. 

I hope this helps.  Let me know if you more questions or if you have specific bible examples to talk about.
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MegaAnimeFreak7 Featured By Owner Jul 21, 2014  Student Digital Artist
:iconclapplz:
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:iconinspiredcreativity:
inspiredcreativity Featured By Owner Jul 22, 2014  Professional Digital Artist
Thank you, it is appreciated.
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:iconlibertades:
Libertades Featured By Owner Apr 27, 2014  Hobbyist General Artist
That's a better explanation, but now, I knew once of a case of incest where both of them were in true love, it wasn't forced, is that right when it comes to that? Or is it impossible to be in love with your family members?
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:iconinspiredcreativity:
inspiredcreativity Featured By Owner Apr 27, 2014  Professional Digital Artist
The short answer is yes, there can be romantic love in some family relationships, and it can be Ok (in my opinion) under some circumstances. Those circumstances need a close look, because most adult/minor child incestuous relationships are damaging, and heterosexual incest is extremely risky for possible pregnancy and possible genetic birth defects, because no birth control is full-proof.  

I give a very condensed 'Conclusion' at the end of this comment that sums up the answer to your questions.

Additionally, as I will explain further down this comment, there is an important question about if it is really true Romantic Love, or something less healthy or exploitive that is disguised as romantic love?  Therefore, the answer to your question is far more complicated.  You did not mention if it was a parental relationship or other kind family relationship, therefore I have to cover them separately:


ADULT/CHILD INCEST WHEN ONE IS AN UNDERAGE CHILD (Parents, Uncles, Aunts, Adult Cousins, etc.):

Sex is really not the most important part of a romantic relationship. I can tell you that if I fell in love with an under-age boy (blood relative or not), and he fell in love with me, I would delay sex until he was of legal age. If you truly love someone, you do what is most healthy for that person, otherwise the sex is selfish and exploitive, and this is very likely not true love. The same would be true of any adult family member and any child below the age of 18 (or whatever their State's
Age of Consent is).  I have been a counselor for around 24 years now and I can tell you with certainty that the vast majority of sexual relationships involving an adult and a child (up to around age 17) is very damaging to that child later in life, if not immediately.  The younger the child the more damaging it is.  When the adult is also a parent, it is far more psychologically damaging. I frankly find it hard to justify any sexual relationship between a parent and an underage child.  It would take a while to explain all of the various ways that it is damaging, but if you are interested, I can go deeper into it.  


ADULT/CHILD INCEST WHEN BOTH ARE ADULTS:

If the parent and child are both adults and mature enough to understand the ramifications and consequences of an incestuous relationship, then it should be Ok.  However, is it really true romantic Love, or something very unhealthy?  They would need to figure this out.


CAN THERE BE HEALTHY & TRUE ROMANTIC LOVE BETWEEN AN ADULT & AN OLDER TEEN (16+)? 

Absolutely Yes, it is possible and does happen.  The reason why society makes sexual/romantic relationships between adults and teens illegal is because the vast majority of these relationships are exploitive in nature, with the adult's love being fake, or delusional, or manipulated.  These exploitive relationships cause great damage to the young people, especially to the younger they are. There are so many male predators out there (and far fewer female predators) that society had to protect young people from them.  Unfortunately, it also makes healthy Adult/Youth relationships illegal, but if the love is real and true, then sex can wait until he or she is of legal.


IS IT REALLY ROMANTIC LOVE, OR SOMETHING DISGUISED AS ROMANTIC LOVE?

There are other things disguised as Romantic Love.  For example, codependent need can feel a lot like romantic love. I was in a relationship that turned out to be based more in codependent need (for both of us) than in love, although it sure felt like romantic love in the first years.  A child or young adult with low self-esteem and feeling generally unloved can be very vulnerable to adults to exploit.  It is very difficult for children and young adults to recognize unhealthy love from healthy love.  Also, keep in mind that many pedophiles and predators of children claim to love the children they molest and rape. In their minds it is love, but it is far from it.  The victims are manipulated into thinking they are very loved, and they return that love.  For the adult, it is only their sexual desire coupled with delusional fantasy.  Take a child who feels unloved and who has low self-esteem, and add to that an adult expressing undying love and sexual praise and desire and extra-special attention, and to the child it can feel like romantic love.  When a parent is involved, it can further confuse things by mixing in parent/child love.  This can later mess-up the person's ability to realize a healthy romantic love and relationship.

For vulnerable youth, a sexual relationship with an adult can make them feel special and loved, and they return that love. An example is a 13-year-old boy who got no attention or love at home, then had a man show great interest in him, lavished him with compliments, attention, praise, gifts and what felt like love. The man knew exactly what to say and how to say it.  Then the boy was manipulated into a sexual situation, with photos taken. He was then blackmailed for more sex (threat to send photos to parents), then sex with other people, then internet sex, until he tried to kill himself, which is when I entered the picture.  When kids find out that the adult never truly loved them and only wanted the sex, it can be psychologically devastating and negatively affect them for many years. 


HIGH DANGER OF ANY HETEROSEXUAL INCESTUOUS SEX—GENETIC BIRTH DEFECTS (No birth control method is foolproof):

The danger of pregnancy is very real, and the resulting possible genetic birth defects is very real.   Birth control can be used, but none of it is full-proof.  Even vasectomies can sometimes heal themselves. Condoms can break or leak, and the pill is not 100%.  Using MULTIPLE BIRTH CONTROL METHODS AT THE SAME TIME is a possible solution, like using condoms, birth control pill and diaphragm, etc.  They should also talk about if they are willing to use a "Morning-after Pill" if there is a condom break, and also talk about if they are willing to abort a pregnancy, if it happens.  It is better to consider such things before becoming sexual.

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .


HOMOSEXUAL
INCEST BETWEEN SIBLINGS OR COUSINS, WHO ARE ALL UNDERAGE OR YOUNG ADULTS:

As I said two comments ago, I believe that Homosexual Incest between siblings or cousins, where one is not forcing, coercing, manipulating, exploiting, intimidating, or unduly influencing the other, and when they are about 14 or older, and within 3 to 4 years of age, I think it can be Ok.  They still have to figure out if the Love is a true Romantic Love, or a mix of Sibling Love, Need, Lust, etc.  Time will usually tell, but at least it should not be more harmful than other young relationships, other than having to keep it secret, feelings of guilt and shame, dealing with societies taboo view of incest, etc. 


HETEROSEXUAL INCEST BETWEEN SIBLINGS OR COUSINS, WHO ARE ALL UNDERAGE OR YOUNG ADULTS:

The biggest danger here is pregnancy and the resulting possible genetic birth defects. Using MULTIPLE BIRTH CONTROL METHODS AT THE SAME TIME is a possible solution. Otherwise, the same concerns apply as I have described above.


FAMILY DYSFUNCTION, VOLATILITY & STRESSES CAN INCREASE WHEN INCEST IS PRESENT IN THE FAMILY.

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .


CHEMICAL (PHEROMONE) SEXUAL ATTRACTION NOT POSSIBLE WITH CLOSE BLOOD RELATIVES:

Pheromone Sexual Attraction is only one of a number of sexual attractions to come into play.  It is possible to form a Romantic/Sexual relationship with someone you are not chemically attracted to, but chemistry can add a another level of heat and passion to the equation.

Each of us will be sexually attracted to people who possess a particular set of genes, known as the Major Histocompatibility Complex (MHC), which plays a critical role in the ability to fight pathogens. Mates with dissimilar MHC genes produce healthier offspring with broad immune systems. Evolution has therefore made us sexually attracted to people with a different MHC, because it produces a healthier human genome and helps the human race survive. The way we sniff-out mates of a different MHC is through our sexual PHEROMONES.  These Pheromones are excreted into our sweat and other people can smell your pheromones up to 50 feet away, or more if there is a breeze.

Close blood relatives are going to have very similar MHCs.  Therefore, incest relies on other types of attraction, such as how the person looks, personality, already having a loving bond, timber of voice, etc.

CONCLUSIONS:

For me, any sexual relationship between a parent and an underage child is unhealthy and damaging to the child in the long-run, and is NOT OK.  If the love is true, they can wait until the child is an adult.

For me, any sexual relationship between an adult and a child requires great scrutiny.  If the child is under age 16 (or later if developmentally behind), any sexual relationship with an adult is NOT Ok.  Again, if it is true love, they wait until he or she is an adult before engaging in sex.  There are other forms of non-sexual intimacy that can be used.

For me, any incestuous relationship between adults is Ok, as long as exploitation, control and manipulation are not being used.

For me, any Heterosexual incest is too dangerous, unless they use multiple birth control methods at the same time to greatly reduce risk of pregnancy.  They should also talk about if they are willing to use a "Morning-after Pill" if there is a condom break, and also talk about if they are willing to abort a pregnancy, if it happens.   It is better to consider such things before becoming sexual.

For me, Homosexual incest between Siblings or Cousins is Ok , as long as one of them is not forcing, coercing, manipulating, exploiting, intimidating, or unduly influencing the other, and when they are about 14 or older, and within 3 to 4 years of age.  They still have to figure out if the Love is a true Romantic Love, or a mix of Sibling Love, Need, Lust, etc.

IN ALL CASES, I feel it is important anyone involved in incest works to figure out if they have a true Romantic Love, or if there are other factors involved.  It is often difficult, in the best of circumstances, to know if your love is true and healthy.  It took me 34 years to figure it out.

IS IT POSSIBLE TO BE IN LOVE WITH A FAMILY MEMBER: Yes, it is, but it is a very tangled web to sort out the different loves, feeling and emotions to know if it is a healthy Love or not, if it will be unhealthy, damaging or destructive to the younger person, OR if it be healthy and constructive to the young person.

All Romantic Love must include Mutual Respect, often putting the needs of your lover before your own, and helping each other to grow and develop individually.  If the older person is controlling the younger one, manipulating younger one, or exploiting the younger one in any way, then it is very unhealthy and probably destructive to the younger one.  Once a life is badly physiologically damaged, you do not see full recoveries.  We learn to live with it and how to not let it rob us of happiness and enjoyment of life.  The things that happen to us as children are programmed very deep and permanently. 

Finally, Children are precious and vulnerable. If an adult must sacrifice his or her desires to help a child reach his or her full potential of happiness and containment, then the adult is morally bound to make that sacrifice.  I recently worked with a young man who is attracted to both adults and pre-pubescent children (pedophilia), but he made a moral choice to NEVER ever act on it.  He cannot do anything about his in-born desires, but he can choice to not act on them. 

I have also known an adult man who met a 15-year-old boy and they fell in love.  They waited to have sex until he turned 17 (legal age of consent in their state). Just being in a romantic relationship, without sex, would probably have been considered illegal (Contributing to the delinquency of a child)  , but in my observation the relationship was very healthy for the boy, giving him a best friend, a mentor and a tutor, and someone who loved and desired him for more than his body and sex.  the adult man had no problem waiting for 2 years and would have waited longer if necessary, because there is so much more to Romantic love than sex.

I hope this is helpful.  If you want to get much more specific about the people you knew, you can send me a DA Note, which is private. 
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:iconlibertades:
Libertades Featured By Owner Apr 27, 2014  Hobbyist General Artist
Thanks for the information, then again it's useful coming from you, I have no more questions at the moment but I shall let you know in the future.
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:iconinspiredcreativity:
inspiredcreativity Featured By Owner Apr 27, 2014  Professional Digital Artist
Your welcome. Looking back on what I wrote, I think I sounded a bit too absolute, too black & white.  Life exists more in the grayscale. Bye for now…
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:iconlibertades:
Libertades Featured By Owner Feb 23, 2014  Hobbyist General Artist
I'm again, intrigued towards this document and I'm glad I found it, but due more researchings I've done after I came across this, I'll conclude a neutral position.

Let I say you may be right, just as some contexts are not clear and might be wrong, so I'll say God is neutral before our eyes to the gay posture. So am I; it's not good or either bad, and it's not something to be proud about: it doesn't make you any better or worse person and you're still normal, rejection due homosexuality is basically racism.

But a bit out the theme, and since you've studied these AND other contexts a bit more deeply... I was curious; people say christian and atheist don't make a good couple and they are a "unequal" pact in a verse if I'm not mistaken, what could you say from the context? It is actually FORBIDDEN for a christian and atheist to be in love?
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:iconinspiredcreativity:
inspiredcreativity Featured By Owner Feb 26, 2014  Professional Digital Artist
Hi again, Sorry it took so long to answer.

Can a Christian marry an Atheist?
Something to keep in mind is that the core theology of all of Christianity are the Gospels of Matthew, Mark Luke & John, the eyewitnesses to the teachings of Jesus. The Catholic church, and Protestant churches then made many rules and regulations, telling you what is a sin and what is not a sin.  Most of the rules are not directly founded in the Gospels, in the teachings of Christ. For example, you see no mention of using condoms or birth control as a sin in the teachings of Jesus.  The Catholic church used to have a rule that eating meat on Friday was a sin.  Then, through Vatican Council II, the church suddenly said that this and many of its other rules were actually not a sin. It was once sacrilegious and a sin to say that the earth rotated around the sun.

When I was a boy, the Catholic church had a rule that said it was a sin to marry a Protestant and that only Catholics were allowed into heaven. The Protestant would have to convert to Catholicism.  I am not sure if this rule still applies, but one rule that I do know applies now, is that a Catholic cannot marry anyone of another religion, unless both people swear to raise the children as Catholic.

Churches make up rules that they think would be what Christ wanted, inferred from his teachings. But inferring things from the words of Jesus means that the people doing the inferring are influenced by fallible human things, like level of education and knowledge, biases, personal beliefs, bigotry, etc.  In other words, making it a sin to say that the earth revolves around the sun is a rule based in ignorance and has nothing to do with what Jesus taught us. Saying that wearing a condom during sex is a sin, or using any other forms of birth control is a sin, is not really founded in scripture. Yes, theologians will give you a logic path from somewhere in scriptures, where they will say it is implied, but not stated.

Churches are trying to make up thousands of rules to keep people on a spiritual path, but it is the completely wrong approach, and is opposite of what Jesus taught us through the Two Great Commandments.  People should NOT NEED RULES ABOUT SIN.  Jesus gave you two rules to follow, and everything else will fall into place.  If you love your Fellow Mankind and god, you will not steal, lie, murder, etc.

In the time of Jesus and in the church up through the renaissance, it was common to marry at ages 14 to 15, but now the church would not allow that.  If you got married in a country allowing marriage at that age, Christian churches would consider such a marriage as annulled and that the two are living in sin.  Therefore, the rules about sin change over time.

Therefore, to answer you question; First, there is nothing in the teachings of Christ to forbid you of marrying anyone you want; Secondly, it depends on what church, if any, you have chosen to affiliate yourself with, since each church has its own rules. Keep in mind that each individual person is responsible for their own soul.  Who you marry should not make any difference. 


Can an Atheist go to Heaven?

If you go by the rules of Christian churches, the answer is no, but if you go by the teachings of Jesus, the answer is maybe.

In the Two Great Commandments, we are told to love God and to love our Fellow Mankind (our neighbor).  How do you love God?  How do you love anyone? You love someone or something, with ought consciously knowing it?  The answer is yes, of course, it is in the nature of love itself.   It can be argued that if you live life as a very good person, a person based in love and compassion, giving of yourself for the benefit of others, etc, then is this not expressing love for God, even if you do not know there is a god or believe there is a god?  In conclusion, I would say that there is no way to know for sure, but I believe that the answer is that atheists can go to heaven.


Your Research into Homosexuality and the Bible

Anyone trying to research this subject will find entire books written to refute what scholars of Coptic Greek and history of the times of Jesus and Biblical Archeologists say about Homosexuality and the Bible.  There are even more books outs there giving in-depth analysis of the correct translations of the Bible, offering contextual, cultural and historic context. I think you will find that the materials you read, which try to refute the scholars in language, history and Biblical Archeology, cannot back-up what they say with references to Coptic Greek usage, cultural and historical context, etc.  They will instead reference the works of biblical translators and theologians, past and present, who obviously were and are very biased. Consider how long it took the church.  They are fully vested in hundreds of years of lies and misinformation.  How many centuries did it take the church to officially agree that the earth was round and that the earth revolved around the sun.  They hand many a scholars assert that the church was correct, despite the evidence in front of them.


WHEN WAS THE BIBLE TRANSLATED INTO ENGLISH & OTHER LANGUAGES, & WHY IS THIS IMPORTANT?


Translations into the vernacular languages of English, Dutch, German, Italian, French, Spanish, etc, took place in the Late Middle Ages (1301–1500) and the Early Modern Period (1501 to ~1789). The King James Bible (KJB) is an English translation of the Christian Bible done for the Church of England and was completed in 1611.


Why is this important? Knowledge of Coptic Greek, knowledge of ancient Greek culture, and the knowledge of the culture of Judea, at the time Jesus lived, were at an all time LOW in this period of Bible translating, while HOMOPHOBIA was extreme high. Obviously, translators of this era would have been heavily BIASED.


The way you translate from an ancient language is by looking at many, many examples of text in that language, in order to find the USAGE of words and phrases. This combined with a knowledge of the the culture and customs at the time of the ancient writings. The church had been systematically destroying all they could find of the Greek and Roman writings. More will be covered about this later.


The story of Sodom & Gomorrah, in the Old Testament, has never been interpreted as having anything do with homosexuality in the Jewish Faith, where the story comes from (in Hebrew). In Christianity, the story of Sodom & Gomorrah had nothing to do with homosexuality until AD 1100, over a thousand years after the death of Jesus. It is in medieval times that Homophobia showed up in the Christian Church.


Here is a big example of a single Translation problem where translators of Paul took a word-pair and claimed it meant homosexual sex, when it never did in the original Coptic Greek:

TRANSLATION PROBLEMS: THE NEW TESTAMENT & HOMOSEXUALITY

All of the Translations about Homosexuality in Paul (in Romans, Corinthians and Timothy) hinges on the translation of two words in Coptic Greek and how they are paired. Every single bad thing said about homosexuality in the New Testament is based on these two words and how they are paired. These two words are Malakos and Arsenokoites and how they are paired.

The Coptic Greek word Arsenokoites is translated as Homosexual Offenders in 1 Corinthians, but as Perverts in 1 Timothy (New International Version Bible). Since it is possible to be a heterosexual pervert, these English terms are clearly two different things.


The Coptic Greek word Arsenokoites:

The Coptic Greek word Arsenokoites is being translated as:

† Homosexual Offenders and Perverts (New International Version Bible - NIV);

† Homosexuals (New American Standard Bible, New Living Translation);

† Sodomites (New Revised Standard Version, New King James Version).


The Coptic Greek word Malakos is being translated as:

† Effeminate (King James Version, American Standard Version Bible);

† Pervert (Contemporary English Version Bible);

† Male Prostitutes (New Revised Standard Version Bible);

† The Self-indulgent (New Jerusalem Bible).


Some translations translate Malakos and Arsenokoites as one word or phrase, such as:

† Men Who Practice Homosexuality (English Standard Version);

† Homosexual Perverts (Good News Bible), or;

† Sexual Perverts (Revised English Bible, Revised Standard Version (2nd Edition).



WHAT DOES MALAKOS ACTUALLY MEAN?


The word Malakos is widely used in Greek texts, including the New Testament. It literally means Soft and it is used like this elsewhere in the New Testament (Matthew 11:18). It can also mean Effeminate, and it is used like this in other Greek texts. Although some gay men are effeminate, the two words are not synonyms. Not all effeminate men are gay, and very few gay men are effeminate. Being Malakos also has connotations of being wanton or unrestrained.


In the first century, when Paul wrote his letters, Malakos was not a term that was applied to gay men.


It is very difficult to say exactly what Paul meant when he wrote Malakos but there is no evidence that he was referring to Same-sex Relationships of any kind, and plenty of evidence that he meant something else.



ARSENOKOITES: HOMOSEXUAL OFFENDERS?


Although the range of translations for Arsenokoites is narrower than the range for Malakos, it is still a difficult—some would say impossible—word to translate. That difficulty can be seen in the New International Version English Bible’s (NIV) use of two different English words to translate it. Perverts and Homosexual Offenders are two different things. Arsenokoites is used in a handful of other Greek texts from the first few centuries after Christ, and none of them really give enough context to determine what the word means.


The Penitential attributed to ‘John the Faster’ (d 595) mentions Arsenokoites in the context of Opposite-sex Relationships:


In fact, many men even commit the sin of arsenokoites with their wives.


This important quotation shows that Arsenokoites cannot be translated to Homosexuals or any similar word. Please look at all of the texts that use Arsenokoites and related words. They are all available on the Internet. When the context gives any clue to the meaning of the word, none of these texts require that Arsenokoites means Homosexual or anything similar, and some, like the Penitential quoted above, show that it cannot have this meaning.


As with Malakos, we cannot say with certainty what Paul meant when he wrote Arsenokoites, but it is clear that it does not refer to Same-sex Relationships.



THE ETYMOLOGY OF ARSENOKOITES (this is important)

Etymology Defined: The study of the origin of words and the way in which their meanings have changed throughout history.


It is tempting to look at the etymology of Arsenokoites to find out what it means. However, the etymology of a word gives only its history, not its meaning. In English for example, the etymology of the phrase lady killer suggests either a lady who kills, or a person who kills ladies, but it really means a man who knows how to charm ladies. I was isolated in an Academy for a few years. I went home to visit and an old friend told me that he got a new stereo and it was really BAD! I suggested he take it back to the store and he looked at me like I was crazy. I talked t a girl who said, “Gag me with a spoon.” Every language has terms that can only be understood in a cultural context, and this constantly changes with time, even in just 5 to ten years.


The only reliable way to determine the meaning of a word is from how it is used, in what context it is used. The way Arsenokoites is used indicates that it does not mean Homosexual.


However, the etymology of this word does give a clue (and it is no more than a clue) about what it means. Arsenokoites is a compound word, formed from arseno- which means men, male humans, and -koiati, which refers to the penetrating partner in sexual intercourse. When these two parts are put together, they form a word meaning something like man-penetrator. However, it it is not clear if it means a man who penetrates, or a man who is penetrated, or lady killer, or it could mean something completely different.


We can get a little more context from the Septuagint, the Greek translation of the Old Testament. The word Arsenokoites appears in the Septuagint, in Leviticus 20:13: “hos an koimethe meta arsenos koiten gunaikos.” It might be the case that Arsenokoites is a contraction of arsenos koiten. If it is, then Paul possibly meant to repeat the Leviticus prohibition.


That restriction is not a general prohibition of male-male sex, but it is a prohibition of a 'specific sexual act.' If Leviticus is the origin of the word, and the origin of the word gives an indication of the meaning, then Arsenokoites refers to just that sexual act, and that is a sexual act that both same-sex and opposite-sex couples can practice. John the Faster’s use of Arsenokoitia supports this suggestion.


Therefore, Paul’s uses of Arsenokoites are injunctions against certain types of sexual activity, not against same-sex relationships.


CONCLUSION


If 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 could be translated as “…homosexuals…will not inherit the Kingdom of God,” or anything like that, then this debate would be over, for the Christians at least. But Arsenokoites and Malakos can’t be translated in that way. Passages like 1 Corinthians 6:1-10 and 1 Timothy 1:9-11 have NOTHING to say about same-sex relationships.







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:iconlibertades:
Libertades Featured By Owner Feb 26, 2014  Hobbyist General Artist
Well thanks once more, you truly research things and that's what I like and why I come here, still the researching I've done does not refute yours, but it puts into I believe, a more fair and neutral situation which I prefer to just keep, still doesn't mean I don't believe what you've discovered, inf act, I support that you keep up these so people can take some advice :)
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:iconinspiredcreativity:
inspiredcreativity Featured By Owner Feb 27, 2014  Professional Digital Artist
You are very welcome. Many Sexual Minority youth and adults are tortured about what they have been taught about Christianity and Homosexuality, and many completely lose their faith due to this.  What I try to do is help youth and adults to reconcile their Faith with their homosexuality.  It is worth noting that there are now a number of Christian churches that interpret the Bible as I have described, and now teach that homosexual sex, within the confines of a Gay marriage, Domestic partnership or loving committed relationship (until marriage is legal for them) is NOT A SIN.  Of course, for all Christians, any sex, be it Straight or Gay, outside of a marriage/relationship is a sin.

I ran out of time last night to do extra research into Christians marrying Atheists or Agnostics, so today I did some web research.  

IF YOU ARE A CATHOLIC:
1. If you are a Catholic, to be married by a Catholic priest, in the Catholic church, both of you must be baptized Christians.  I found a page saying that it is possible for a Catholic to Marry and atheist or agnostic if he or she can get permission from their Bishop or the Vatican, but I do not know if this is correct, or if it is correct, how likely it is to get that permission
2. If the person you are marrying is a Protestant, express permission is required from your bishop.
3. The non-catholic person would have to swear to raise the children as Catholic.

IF YOU ARE A PROTESTANT:
I have not yet found any reference to Protestant Christians being forbidden from marrying others of different religions or those who are Agnostic or Atheist.

You may find the following links of interest:


Can Atheists Marry Christians… and Make It Last?  This one is interesting because it shows a high divorce rate when a Christian marries an Evangelist Christian.


Anyway, I hope this helps to answer your question. Until later…





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:iconlibertades:
Libertades Featured By Owner Feb 27, 2014  Hobbyist General Artist
Thanks, that's helpful.
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:iconlunarmew:
LunarMew Featured By Owner Jan 1, 2014  Student Digital Artist
I am happy I came across this deviation. I am Catholic but believe that anything I might or might not agree with shouldn't be taken for granted. I haven't gotten around to reading the PDF yet and don't know what to expect. However I will do more harm to myself by not reading what I might "not agree with" than avoiding something because I am afraid of people changing my way of thinking. The reason there are holy wars like crazy is mainly because most people refuse to be educated even if they claimed they read what is important and there is no point trying to learn about everything else. Nothing good comes from covering your ears to ignore someone else. ^^;

Although, to be honest, I am one of those straight Catholics struggling because I never like the view of homosexuality being terrible. Most of my family are also against the idea of homosexuality despite not hating gays so I feel like I am alone at this. It's difficult for me to communicate with my close relatives because I am probably the only one who doesn't think gay and lesbian parents and GLBT marriage are bad. I don't outright hate my religion ether but a lot of the rules that seem just there to hurt others really bug me, yet I don't want to abandon my beliefs as I do love and believe in God and in Jesus and never believed in a black and white way of viewing my faith.

Sorry for the rambling, by the way. Usually I don't get involve in religious conversations online because most of the religious talk out there is hate speech but this seemed relevant to bring up. ^^;
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:iconinspiredcreativity:
inspiredcreativity Featured By Owner Jan 2, 2014  Professional Digital Artist

Hi,

I was raised Catholic, was an altar boy and wanted to be a priest. This is why I am very educated in Catholic theology and history.

My father once told me the difference between Spirituality and Religion.  Spirituality is all about your own connection to God.  Are you a good person because you want to be a good person, or because you fear hell and desire heaven? Satan is an allegory of our own Human nature, our tendency to be centered in self-interest, greed, etc.  It takes conscious choice and desire to be a good person.

Religion is like a big private club with tons of rules, rituals and traditions.  Each church has its own rules.  The thing to remember is that the vast majority of the rules are not directly rooted in the New Testament.

You can be a wonderful Christian without being affiliated with an organization, or without buying-into all opt their dogma, rules, traditions and ritual.  You can also look for anotherChristian church that answers your needs more closely.  In the end, all you need is the teachings of Jesus Christ.  You can even toss the rest of the New Testament, because all that really matters are the words of Jesus Christ.  He gives you all of the guidance you need.  Paul and other are MEN and men are fallible, translations are fallible.  If you follow Jesus’ Two Great Commandment to Love God and to Love your neighbor, then what other rules do you need? Would you cheat the  a person you love, would would you kill or steal from those you love?

TEACHINGS OF JESUS CHRIST:

One big problem I see in most Christians is that they focus on many other scriptures, writings and sermons in their faith, spend time pointing their fingers at perceived wrongs in others, but seem to avoid the words of Jesus Christ himself, in his Two Great Commandments [Matthew 22:36-40]and in his Sermon on the Mount [Gospel of Matthew (chapters 5, 6 and 7), and his Sermon on the Plain [Gospel of Luke, in 6:17-49].  These are the basis of all Christianity.  I high recommend that you read the above referenced gospel passages.

Jesus said that all of the law and the Prophets (All of the Old Testament and Judaic law) hang on the Two Great Commandments [Matthew 22:40].  In Luke 10:25-28, when a lawyer stood up, and tempted Jesus, saying, ‘Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?’ Jesus answered with the Two Great Commandments, the first of which is to Love God with all of your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind, and the second of which you shall love your neighbor as yourself [This refers to a Universal Love for all of your fellow mankind].

Condemning homosexuals goes against the teachings of Jesus Christ.  Christians have been torturing, murdering, imprisoning, discriminating against, and causing immeasurable suffering for Sexual Minorities for over two thousand years, all in the name of God.  Discrimination against Sexual Minorities, be it socially, financially and/or legally, goes against the very teachings of Jesus.

I was 13 years old when my Priest told us alter boys, “When a boy is attracted to another boy, he is an ABOMINATION in the eyes of God, doomed to burn for all eternity in the everlasting fires of Gahanna.”  Days after that, I tried to kill myself by jumping of a freeway overpass, but was thwarted by a man who grabbed my feet as I went over.  50% of all boys who attempt to kill themselves or succeed in killing themselves, are Gay, Bisexual or Transgender (the rate for girls is less).  They are driven to do this by the bigotry and hate of their Christian society.

When I was growing up, and up into the 1990s, Homosexuals (including children) were being tortured by churches and church groups, using electrical shock to the genitals, while showing them pornography.  This was called “Aversion therapy”  to supposedly cure homosexuality, although it never did. There were very few gay people who could be OUT.  If you were outed, you lost your job, your licenses, your career, and typically most of your freinds and your family.  Homosexuality was a crime until just a few years ago, and Gay people were routinely imprisoned, to years of being raped daily.

There is no adequate way to describe what it is like living in content fear.  I went to sea, and discovery meant death by being tossed over the side of the ship to drown.  The feelings of loneliness and isolation are profound—something many kids still feel today.



I would like to offer you some thoughts I hope are worth your consideration:

GOD’S PLAN:

Science has now proven that people are born homosexual, and we even know part of the genetic and chemical process of how it happens.  We also know that every human being is born somewhere on a spectrum between heterosexual and homosexual (on a bell curve), with few actual pure heterosexuals and homosexuals.

Next, let us look at NATURE and the Animal Kingdom. So far, Homosexuality has been documented in almost 500 species of animals, and 1,500 species total, showing that sexual preference is predetermined and pervasive throughout Nature, and part of our shared fundamental DNA. I have posted a list of example Animals with homosexuality, such as Penguins, the entire Ape family (like Bonobo Chimpanzees & Japanese Macaques), American Bison, Giraffes, Kob Antelopes, Bottlenose Dolphins, Walrus, Gray Whale, Black Swan, Guianan-Cock-of-the-Rock (bird), Dragonflies, etc.

ARGUMENT: If homosexuality is found throughout the natural world, and if humans are born with homosexuality, then homosexuality MUST be part of God’s plan and god’s creation. Keep in mind that 98% of Human DNA is the same as that of a Chimpanzee.



JESUS CHRIST & THE ISSUE OF HOMOSEXUALITY:

Matthew, Mark, Luke and John were the eye-witnesses to the teachings of Jesus.  I challenge you to read every word of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, of any translation. and find one word or phrase against homosexuals, homosexuality, or homosexual sex.   This is very, very important because homosexuality was prevalent and openly practiced in the Roman Empire in that time period, and in Judea (part of the Roman Empire), where Jesus was born, raised and preached.  Roman Garrisons and Roman citizens were prevalent and prominent in Judea.  Joseph, father of Jesus, was a carpenter in an urban area densely populated by Romans (where the work and money was).  Jesus would have been very familiar with Roman ways, and with Homosexual sex.  Cartoons of homosexual sex are even found on the stone walls of the cities (ancient graffiti).

Jesus spoke of many things that obviously he felt were important, yet Jesus never once said one word against Homosexuality, something he would have known about in his some ~34 years of life.  What Jesus did NOT talk about can have importance as well as what he did talk about.



TRANSLATION PROBLEMS: THE NEW TESTAMENT & HOMOSEXUALITY:

In the New Testament, the only words quoted against homosexuality are found in the Letters of Paul.  Paul dictated his letters to a scribe, who wrote the letters in Coptic Greek.  All of the Translations about homosexuality in Paul, in Romans, Corinthians and Timothy his on the translation of two words in Coptic Greek and how they are paired.  Every single bad thing said about homosexuality in the New Testament is based on these two words and how they are paired.

The Coptic Greek word Arsenokoites is translated as is translated as Homosexual Offenders in 1 Corinthians, but as Perverts in 1 Timothy (New International Version Bible). As it is possible to be a heterosexual pervert, these English terms are clearly two different things.

The Coptic Greek word Arsenokoites is translated as:

     † Homosexual Offenders and Perverts (New International Version Bible - NIV)

     †  Homosexuals (New American Standard Bible, New Living Translation)

     † Sodomites (New Revised Standard Version, New King James Version).

The Coptic Greek word Malakos is translated as:

     † Effeminate (King James Version, American Standard Version Bible);

     † Pervert (Contemporary English Version Bible);

     † Male Prostitutes (New Revised Standard Version Bible);

     † The Self-indulgent (New Jerusalem Bible).

Some translations translate Malakos and Arsenokoites as one word or phrase, such as Men Who Practice Homosexuality (English Standard Version), Homosexual Perverts (Good News Bible), or Sexual Perverts (Revised English Bible, Revised Standard Version (2nd Edition).

What does Malakos actually mean? The word is widely used in Greek texts, including the New Testament. It literally means Soft and it is used like this elsewhere in the New Testament (Matthew 11:18). It can also mean Effeminate, and it is used like this in other Greek texts. Although some gay men are effeminate, the two words are not synonyms. Not all effeminate men are gay, and very few gay men are effeminate. Being Malakos also has connotations of being wanton or unrestrained. In the first century, when Paul wrote his letters, Malakos was not a term that was applied to gay men.

It is very difficult to say exactly what Paul meant when he wrote Malakos but there is no evidence that he was referring to Same-sex Relationships of any kind, and plenty of evidence that he meant something else.

ARSENOKOITES: HOMOSEXUAL OFFENDERS?

Although the range of translations for Arsenokoites is narrower that the range for Malakos, it is still a difficult-some would say impossible-word to translate. That difficulty can be seen in the NIV’s use of two different English words to translate it. Perverts and Homosexual Offenders are two different things. Arsenokoites is used in a handful of other Greek texts from the first few centuries after Christ, and none of them really give enough context to determine what the word means.

The Penitential attributed to ‘John the Faster’ (d 595) mentions Arsenokoites in the context of Opposite-sex Relationships:

    In fact, many men even commit the sin of arsenokoites with their wives.
This important quotation shows that Arsenokoites cannot be translated to Homosexuals or any similar word. Please look at all of the texts that use Arsenokoites and related words. They are all available on the Internet. When the context gives any clue to the meaning of the word, none of these texts require that Arsenokoites means Homosexual or anything similar, and some, like the Penitential quoted above, show that it cannot have this meaning.

As with Malakos, we cannot say with certainty what Paul meant when he wrote Arsenokoites, but it is clear that it does not refer to Same-sex Relationships.

THE ETYMOLOGY OF ARSENOKOITES

It is tempting to look at the etymology of Arsenokoites to find out what it means. However, the etymology of a word gives only its history, not its meaning. In English for example, the etymology of the phrase lady killer suggests either a lady who kills, or a person who kills ladies, but it really means a man who knows how to charm ladies. The only reliable way to determine the meaning of a word is from how it is used, in what context it is used. The way Arsenokoites is used indicates that it does not mean Homosexual. However, the etymology of this word does give a clue (and it is no more than a clue) about what it means.

Arsenokoites is a compound word, formed from arseno- which means men, male humans, and -koiati, which refers to the penetrating partner in sexual intercourse. When these two parts are put together, forming a word meaning something like man-penetrator, it is not clear if it means a man who penetrates, or a man who is penetrated, or lady killer, or it could mean something completely different. We can get a little more context from the Septuagint, the Greek translation of the Old Testament.

The word Arsenokoites appears in the Septuagint, in Leviticus 20:13: “hos an koimethe meta arsenos koiten gunaikos.” It might be the case that Arsenokoites is a contraction of arsenos koiten. If it is, then Paul possibly meant to repeat the Leviticus prohibition. That restriction is not a general prohibition of male-male sex, but is a prohibition of a specific sexual act . If Leviticus is the origin of the word, and the origin of the word gives an indication of the meaning, then Arsenokoites refers to just that sexual act, and that is a sexual act that both same-sex and opposite-sex couples can practice. John the Faster’s use of Arsenokoitia supports this suggestion. Therefore, Paul’s uses of Arsenokoites are injunctions against certain types of sexual activity, not against same-sex relationships.

CONCLUSION

If 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 could be translated as “…homosexuals…will not inherit the Kingdom of God,” or anything like that, then this debate would be over, for the Christians at least. But Arsenokoites and Malakos can’t be translated in that way. Passages like 1 Corinthians 6:1-10 and 1 Timothy 1:9-11 have nothing to say about same-sex relationships.



THE MANY CHRISTIAN CHURCHES WHO DO NOT SEE HOMOSEXUAL SEX AS A SIN, WHEN WITHIN THE CONFINES OF A LOVING & COMMITTED RELATIONSHIP

The following major Christian churches teach that homosexual sex is NOT a sin within the confines of a comitted and loving relationship/marriage, churches who perform Gay Unions/marriages, and who also ordain homosexual ministers and even allow then to be in non-celibate relationships.

Examples are:

Churches that Perform Gay Marriages and Ordain Gay Ministers [Ordained homosexual ministers can be in non-celibate relationships]:

The Episcopal Church (The United Church of Christ)

The Evangelical Lutheran Church

Presbyterian Church

The Unitarian Church

The Unitarian Universalists

The Metropolitan Community Church

Unity School of Christianity

Community of Christ

Evangelical Anglican Church In America

Reconciling Pentecostals International

The National Catholic Church of America

Catholic Apostolic Church in North America

United Catholic Church

Orthodox-Catholic Church

Evangelical Catholic Church

Reformed Catholic Church

Christ Catholic Church

Ecumenical Catholic Communion

Liberal Catholic Church

Independent Catholic Christian Church

Independent Greek Orthodox Church of the United States (Greek Orthodox)

United Church of Canada

Moravian Church


The following are as above or at least welcoming, but based on a Church-by-Church basis, as set by the Congregation:

Lutheran Churches

Quaker (Religious Society of Friends)

Pentecostal

Christian Church (Disciples of Christ)

Baptists [Very few Baptists churches are welcoming to Sexual Minorities, but some are. Go here www.awab.org to find welcoming Baptists churches.

United Methodist Church [Some Methodist churches are welcoming to Sexual Minorities. Go here www.rmnetwork.org to find welcoming Methodist churches.



THE OLD TESTAMENT — SODOM & GOMORRAH

The story of Sodom & Gomorrah was never interpreted as having anything to do with homosexuality in the Jewish Faith, and in early Christianity.  Homosexuality was suddenly inserted as key to the story in AD 1100, over a thousand years after Christ died, by a man called Peter Damien.  It caught on.  The language that Peter Damien translated was incorrect.

In a nutshell, the vast majority of historical scholars, biblical archeologists & the Jewish faith say that Sodom and Gomorrah has nothing to do with homosexuality in specific, and everything to do with inhospitality and general wickedness. However, Orthodox Christians focus upon the meaning of the word KNOW, in verse 5:

     And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men which came in to thee this night? Bring them out unto us, that we may know them. Genesis19:5

Orthodox Christians interpret, "Bring them out unto us, that we may KNOW them," and especially the word KNOW to mean that the Sodomites wanted to have homosexual sex with the two male Angels visiting Lot.

While the Hebrew word for KNOW appears over 900 times in the Hebrew Scriptures, only in approximately 1% (13-14 times) of those references is it clearly used as a euphemism for realizing sexual intimacy.  Instead, the demand to KNOW, should be interpreted as 'demanding the right to interrogate the strangers.'  The sins of Sodom & Gomorrah were many, but mostly based in INHOSPITALITY & GENERAL WICKEDNESS.

If you want more detail, see: SODOM DESTROYED ON 6-29-3129BC
SODOM & GOMORRAH DESTROYED BY ASTEROID ON 6-29-3129 BCE
Sodom and Gomorra were two ancient Early-Bronze-Age cities in a fertile region of the Middle East, near the Dead Sea.  The time is shortly before dawn on 6-29-3129 BCE, and 600 miles (966 Km) from Sodom & Gomorrah, there are two Samarian Astronomers observing the skies.  They observed a fiery body traveling across the night sky.  They inscribed its path and it relative course and position against the stars on a clay disk, called a Planisphere.  Dr. Hempsall and Alan Bond deciphered the clay disk and used computers to recreate the night sky thousands of years ago. They pinpointed the sighting of the ancient astronomers to shortly before dawn on June 29 in the year 3123 B.C.
The asteroid, which was about 1.25 Km (0.78 Miles) in diameter, exploded above the ground with a force of a 10,000 megaton nuclear weapon (100 times more powerful than any nuclear weapon on earth). 
SODOM DESTROYED ON 6-29-3129BC



The above is a stripped down version to help you understand Homosexuality in the Christian Faith.   If you have any questions, feel free to ask.

Some Christians have asked me, “How dare you question the word of God?”  I do not question the word of God.  In Paul, I question the translators who translated the original Coptic Greek texts to Latin, and thus to modern languages.  The original New Testament is written in Coptic Greek. 

Matthew


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:iconrobertthebrobot:
robertthebrobot Featured By Owner Nov 18, 2013  Student General Artist
Once the churches that are not listed in you disruption start excommunicating and aliening  people who lie, cheat, steal, say "G*D D#%@!", or don't go to church on their respective sabbaths(Sunday or Saturday),  like they do for GLBTQ brethren, THEN we can talk on like terms.

God's
Love
Becoming
True in a 
Queer but just as Holy way.

GBAHAGD!

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:iconinspiredcreativity:
inspiredcreativity Featured By Owner Dec 4, 2013  Professional Digital Artist
True. Christian Bigots are hypocrites. Almost all of the homophobia, the discrimination, murder, torture and imprisonment of Sexual Minorities, in the history of the human race, all come from Christianity and Islam.  Yet, such homophobia and crimes against Sexual Minorities go directly against the teachings of Jesus Christ.  What we know or ancient history and the history of aboriginal races, is that homosexuality was largely accepted and in many cases, thought to be sacred (such as in Pacific Island races, tribes of the Americas).  Native Americans called homosexuals "Two-Spirits" and such people held the honored positions of Medicine man or woman, shaman, tribe negotiators, tribe teacher…  It was the Christianization of Native Americans that brought homophobia to the people.  The same is true of South American peoples.  Both Islam and Christianity spread mostly through the spilling of blood and conquering of peoples. 

People point their fingers against Sexual Minority people and call us 'sinners' for the way we were born, while they live lives based in greed and self-interest.  Unfortunately, bigotry is fundamental in the human nature of most people.  People either raised and taught that bigotry is wrong, or they later make a conscious choice not to be bigoted.  Otherwise most people default to some form of bigotry.  People hang onto their bigotry because it makes them feel SUPERIOR to others.  It makes some people feel good to be able to look 'down' on 'sinners,' Hispanics, Jews or whoever they consider inferior.  Interestingly, even people who are bigoted against, like black people and Jews, turn around and are bigoted against other people.  There is no lesson learned. 

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:iconsilversongwriter:
silversongwriter Featured By Owner Sep 16, 2013
Please explain how this proves homosexuality isn't a sin. It just means the catholic church is messed up. Just cause the early church did it, doesn't mean it's biblical okay.
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:iconinspiredcreativity:
inspiredcreativity Featured By Owner Sep 17, 2013  Professional Digital Artist
Hi, I will answer your question in 5 ways below:

1. THE BIBLE & CATHOLICISM

The Catholic church and the Bible go hand-in-hand.  The Catholic church was Christianity itself, from the time of the First Council of Nicea (AD 325) until Luther broke away to form the Reformation at around 1517.  The Bible was first assembled in three North African Synods (Synod of Hippo in AD 393, the Synod of Carthage in AD 397, and another in Carthage in AD 419). Old men haggled and negotiated to decide which books and gospels would be included and which would be banned. The bible was then sent to the Pope, who then decreed that every single word was divinely inspired, as if written by God itself. Prior to when Emperor Constantine called the First Council of Nicea, Christianity was splintered into many different churches, but the two dominant ones were the Gnostics and what is now the Catholic church.

In other words, the Bible of today IS the Catholic Bible, except that Protestant Bibles have had some of the books removed and made some changes of interpretation.

2. JESUS NEVER ONCE SAID ANYTHING BAD ABOUT HOMOSEXUAL SEX

The original New Testament, including the Letters of Paul, never said anything against Homosexuality.The first thing to note about the New Testament is that Jesus, as witnessed by Matthew, Mark, Luke and John never mentions or even hints that homosexuality or homosexual sex as being wring or a sin.  This is significant first because Jesus spoke about what he believed was important, and in some cases spoke more than once on some subjects.  Secondly, Jesus was bound to have known of Homosexual sex, yet never spoke of it as being sinful.

You might ask why Jesus have know about homosexual sex.  Jesus was worn in Judea, part of the Roman Empire.  We also now know that Jesus was raised in a city that was heavily populated by Roman citizens and even more Roman Garrisons, who likely employed his father Joseph, a carpenter.  Homosexual sex was openly practiced by many Romans as a normal part of sexuality.  I can give you more historical data if you desire.

3. THE LETTERS OF PAUL & HOMOSEXUALITY

The Letters of Paul and the other original books of New Testament were all written in Coptic Greek.  In fact, Paul did not actually write his letters, he dictated to a scribe who wrote in Coptic Greek.  Coptic Greek has no word or words for homosexuality or homosexual sex. Homosexual sex was simply seen as one aspect of normal sexuality in the both the Greek and Roman cultures, up through the period of biblical times.  

In the 11th Century AD, Christian translators took two Greek words (as outlined in my paper) and intentionally chose to claim that these words meant homosexual sex when put together. This is a blatant LIE that any scholar of Coptic Greek can verify (assuming they are not being paid by a Christian church).

Sodom & Gomorrah (Genesis 19) was never seen as having anything to do with homosexuality until around AD 1100, when Italian ascetic Peter Damian reinterpreted it.  Even today, the Jewish faith never has interpreted Sodom & Gomorrah as having anything to do with homosexuality.  It all came down to how you interpreted the word KNOW in the story.  This word KNOW is used often in the Old Testament, but NOT used in the Old Testament to denote anything sexual.  However, the Church chose to use the word KNOW in a sexual connotation, and still does, which is a blatant misinterpretation of the Hebrew.

4. NOT ONLY ARE WE BORN HOMOSEXUAL, BISEXUAL & TRANSGENDER, BUT IT IS FOUND THROUGHOUT NATURE

Science has not only proven that we are born Straight, Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual, Transgender and everything in-between, we now even understand much of the process and the genetic links (passed only on the female side).  Even the Catholic church now officially states, in its Catechism that Homosexuals are born that way (although they still say Gay sex is a sin).  If God does not make mistakes, surely God made homosexuals for his own reasons and by his own intent.  Who are you to question it?

Homosexuality has been documented in over 500 species of animals, and 1,500 total species, so far.  Homosexuality should have genetically died out since homosexuals typically do not produce offspring, yet homosexuality genetically persist.  This is because homosexuality is in our core genetic code.  Humans share 98% of their genetic code with the Chimp species and almost as much with most other species. 

EXAMPLES OF HOMOSEXUALITY DOCUMENTED IN OTHER SPECIES:
    Chimpanzee, Macaques & Ape species
    Penguins
    Giraffes
    American Bison
    Antelope
    Dolphins
    Whales
    Walrus
    Black Swans
    Parrots
    Dragonflies

5. MANY CHRISTIAN CHURCHES TEACH THAT HOMOSEXUAL SEX, IN THE CONFINES OF A LOVING COMMITTED RELATIONSHIP, IS NOT A SIN

In the United States, as well as around the world, there are many mainstream churches that do Gay Weddings and even more who simply teach that Homosexual Sex is NOT A SIN, as long as it is done in the confines of a Gay Marriage or Loving Long-term relationship. Please note that in Christianity, ANY SEX outside of marriage is considered a sin.  Since Gay marriage is not legal in most places in the world, a Spiritual Marriage is just as good.

EXAMPLES:
    The Metropolitan Community Church
    The Episcopal Church (The United Church of Christ)
    The Evangelical Lutheran Church
    Presbyterian Church
    The Unitarian Church
    The Unitarian Universalists
    Unity School of Christianity
    Community of Christ
    Evangelical Anglican Church In America
    Reconciling Pentecostals International
    The National Catholic Church of America
    Catholic Apostolic Church in North America
    United Catholic Church
    Orthodox-Catholic Church
    Evangelical Catholic Church
    Reformed Catholic Church
    Christ Catholic Church
    Ecumenical Catholic Communion
    Liberal Catholic Church
    Independent Catholic Christian Church
    Independent Greek Orthodox Church of the United States (Greek Orthodox)
    Moravian Church
The following are as above or at least welcoming, but based on a Church-by-Church basis, as set by the Congregation:
    Lutheran Churches
    Quaker (Religious Society of Friends)
    Pentecostal
    Christian Church (Disciples of Christ)
    Baptists [Very few Baptists churches are welcoming to Sexual Minorities, but some are.]
    United Methodist Church [Some Methodist churches are welcoming to Sexual Minorities.]
CONCLUSION:

The ORIGINAL Bible does NOT say that Homosexual sex is a sin. The original Bible was written in Coptic Greek. It is the LIES of Translators that set homosexual sex as a sin, and once it became part of tradition, there was no undoing it.   Being given permission by your church to hate and discriminate against homosexuals, to torture, murder and imprison them, is not something people will give-up easily.


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:iconsilversongwriter:
silversongwriter Featured By Owner Sep 17, 2013
1. The bible was changed longed before the protestant reformation. Where the bible said, "Jesus" or "Iesus" It was supposed to say "Yahuwshuwah" When it said "Cross" it was supposed to say "Stake" or in greek "Staros". Not to mention things such as, no birth control, priests not being able to marry, purgatory, selling indulgences, pedophilia, prayer to marry, prayer to saints, those fake exorcisms...
And the doctrines of plenty of protestant churches are screwed up too, there are the charasmatic churches doing thier slain in the spirit garbage, and there's this false doctrine about the rapture

2. Yahuwshuwah did not say homosexuality specifically, but he used the word fornication. Which in the strongs concordance is porneia. THat means sexuality immorality of all types. Since the bible condemns homosexuality in other places I'm sure it counts as sexual immorality.

3. Homosexual sex is a sin in the book of romans. I'm gonna go all through the verse. Now when you say the verses before it referred to idolatry, you're correct. So what ever took place in romans 1:26-27 is because of the sinful acts in the verse before it. However, it doesn't mean they're the same thing. FOR THIS CAUSE. That means Yahuwah basically said, "You know what, since your gonna go and worship idols, I'm gonna let the devil twist your minds however he feels like"

" How could this passage describe gay Christians when Christians glorify God and give thanks to him" Well you can call on the false name of God or Jesus (Earth pig when translated in latin), all day if you want. But if you're not obediant to his commandments, those fake implanted names don't mean anything.

"How could this passage describe gay Christians when no Christians is an idol-worshipper" For one romans 1:26-27 was talking about sexual immorality that Yahuwah allowed people to do because of idolotry, you don't need to be an idol worshiper to do it. And plus that statement is false. Christians run aorund with thier crucifixes which were nothing more than pagan symbols that stood for devil worship. So almost all christians are idol worshipers.

"How could this passage describe gay Christians when no Christians has exchanged the truth of God for a lie"
ALL christians have done that.

Now the verses 1:26-27 refer to homosexuality in the greek and english. But to say that it only referred to idolatry is ridiculous. Sure the verses before it reffered to idolatry, but then again idolatry was apart of roman culture, and so was homosexuality. So if your gonna have a chapter in the bible dedicated to the immorality of Roman culture, obviously you're gonna mention both idolatry and homosexuality.

About the word ArsenoKoitai. For one, I don't care about the Septuagint's use of the word in Leviticus, since the OT was originally written in the Paleo-hebrew language. But your conclusion seems to be that aresnokoiati, which means male penetrator, refered to the act but not the relatioship. ἄρρην (G730) and κοίτη (G2845) mean Male and sex. Sex it the word in G2845 didn't translate into penetrator. www.blueletterbible.org/lang/l… It meant sex between two men period.

"If Leviticus is the origin of the word, and the origin of the
word gives an indication of the meaning, then
Arsenokoites
refers to just that sexual act, and that is a sexual
act that both same-sex and opposite-sex couples can practice."
Leviticus was not the origin of the word. The Septuagint is a translation of the hebrew just like the english is. And even if it was, what's the signifigance? So homosexuals aren't allowed to engage in anal sex, which pretty much all of them do?

Another thing, your interpretation of eunich's now whether they're homosexuals or asexuals is debateable, but the point is, whatever they are, it's clear that they're celibate. So whether they are gay or not is irrelivant, they are not given permission to marry or have sex. And if they weren't permitted to marry, then they could not have sex. Pre-marital sex is a sin.

Also, homosexuality being a sin, has nothing to do with whether they produce or not. It's a sin becuase in leviticus it was called an abomination, or disgusting thing. Yahuwah listed it a sin because it's nasty, not because they don't produce kids.

And honestly, I care less about what went on in acient christian history. I know all I need to know. They changed the bible, put in sick repulsive heretical traditions, most likely killed members of the early assembly. I care about the doctrines of the apostles, anything else is irrelevant to me. Christian history is one of the most horrible things to read about. War, paganism, etc...

And about sodom and gommorah, if the word" Know" did not have a sexual connatation, then why did Lot offer his daughter for them to have sex with?
I know that you said in you OT and homosexuality paper

"If they were all gay, then
he would hardly have made a gift of his daughters to be raped; the mob would have had no sexual interest
in women.
Instead, he would have given the mob a gift of his two future sons-in-law. His daughters were
both engaged to men from Sodom"

Well, the fact is that not all the men in Sodom were gay. Because Sodom was like ancient greece, heterosexuals enganged in both gay and straight sex. And when you say inhospitability to strangers was the reason they were destroyed, that's untrue. Just like saying they were destroyed just for homosexuality. Sodom and Gommorah were engagning in homosexuality, idol worship, inhospitability, beastiality, lust of every kind, adultry, and all sorts of things. So it's clear that Sodom and Gommorah were destroyed for various reasons.

I'm gonna prove homosexuality is one of them. You say that it was rape rather than consentual sex, and you suggest that they might not have wanted sex at all. For one it couldn't have been rape, if it was then Lot would have been punished as well, since he offered his daughters to be raped. And if you say they wanted to "know" the angels, then it makes no sense. Why is that even a big deal. If I was in a town where everyone knows everyone, and all of a sudden some strangers came, yea, I'd want to know who they are too. Just like in America, we don't want people crossing the boarder unless we check them out first. That's how legal immigration works here. So that's not even a good reason to destroy them. And of course it had to be sexual. What sense does this make?

"Hey lot, who are those strange people you got in your house? we ain't never seem them around here before"
(Which is a valid inquiry)
"Hey guys, you don't need to meet those dudes, have sex with my daughters instead"

If they just wanted to know who those people are, which is understandable, then what reason would Lot offer his daughters?

4. I don't believe homosexuality is a choice. I think it's a demonic affliction. Same thing with the gay animals. In the bible Yahuwshuwah sent cast demons out of the a young man, and where did they go? Into a swine. So demons can inhabit animals.

5. I don't care one bit about what any christian denomination teaches. Guess what, charismatic christians teach that when they holy spirit comes upon you, you'll fall out on the floor and start convulsing when thats not biblical. Christianity =/= Bible. People think that after the Catholicism, all the pagan influence left Christianity, that's untrue.
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:iconinspiredcreativity:
inspiredcreativity Featured By Owner Sep 20, 2013  Professional Digital Artist
Well, I am not making any sense of what is connected to what with you comments.  You say that homosexuality is a demonic affliction, but it sound more like you have a demonic affliction. This who preach intolerance and hate are the anti-christ.  I suggest you live by the words of Jesus Christ, in his two Great Commandments, in his Sermon on the Mount and in his Sermon on the Plain, to find find redemption, for he spells out how you should live to be a Christian, and you appear to be very from the teachings of Jesus Christ.
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:iconsilversongwriter:
silversongwriter Featured By Owner Sep 21, 2013
What does the truth have to do with intolerance? I made the statements I made based on facts and logical fallicies I found in what you wrote. All of it had to do with, language, scriptural context, and definitions. Hate has nothing to do with it...

I said that..
1. Romans wasn't about shrine prostitutes it's about homosexuality
2. Christian churches don't accurately represent the bible in it's original language, or even in the translations.
3. Jesus is Latin for earth pig
4. ArsenoKoitai meant "Man Sex"
5. Eunuchs were probably not gays, and if they were it wouldn't matter, since eunuchs were celibate. And to say that the eunuchs of the bible were gay men, is saying that Gay men should refrain from sex. (Which they should)
6. The sin that destroyed Sodom wasn't rape or rudeness to strangers. It was homosexuality.
7. The Cross has pagan origins
8. The devil causes homosexuality

And in every case, I gave factual examples proving my case. That's not hate, that's love... Love for acuraracy. I don't care about gay people, I care about the scriptures being interpreted with 100% accuracy. And I think the things mentioned in your NT + Homosexuality, and your OT + Homosexuality were wrong.

If you disagree than do so with logical facts. It has nothing to do with hate. If I'm homophobic, and what I say can be backed up with facts, than that means the facts are homophobic?

Now if you really think that homosexuality isn't a sin. Than disprove those statements with facts.

And I am kind to homosexuals, you know nothing about how I feel or treat them personally. Don't attack me, attack what I said and tell me that my statements aren't air tight. I'm not PC, I don't care if I offend gays. If biblical truth is offensive, than I don't care.
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:iconinspiredcreativity:
inspiredcreativity Featured By Owner Sep 22, 2013  Professional Digital Artist
You have not presented facts, you are only making statements about facts that are biased opinions.  I give the actual translations of the Coptic Greek, and you make a statement that the scholars are all wrong and it is your opinions that are fact, which is far from logical—It is delusional on your part.

None of your statements (1 through 8) above have any basis in fact.

Sorry, but I just don't have time now to play your games.
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:iconpoliticalviolet:
PoliticalViolet Featured By Owner Jul 28, 2013   General Artist
YAYAYAYAYAYAYAY!!! I'm with the United Church of Canada, and am sooo proud to see our name on here!!! :w00t:
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:iconinspiredcreativity:
inspiredcreativity Featured By Owner Jul 28, 2013  Professional Digital Artist
Excellent! You are very lucky to be in an open, loving and welcoming community.  There are so many youth around the world who suffer terribly living in an environment of hate and intolerance that it is heart-breaking.
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:iconpoliticalviolet:
PoliticalViolet Featured By Owner Jul 29, 2013   General Artist
See this site: affirmunited.ause.ca/ It gives a list of affirming churches by province.
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:iconinspiredcreativity:
inspiredcreativity Featured By Owner Jul 31, 2013  Professional Digital Artist
Thanks.
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:iconpoliticalviolet:
PoliticalViolet Featured By Owner Jul 29, 2013   General Artist
I am very lucky. I love how inclusive we are- there are plenty of lesbian couples (don't know of many gay couples, lol, but I hope some start coming) that call this church home.
Just a warning though- not all United churches allow gays- "covenanting" churches do not. My church is "affirming" which means we do allow gays.
I know of a United church that a lesbian couple was told to leave (they now go to my church). This "covenanting vs affirming" should be checked out before deciding to stay at the church. :)
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:iconinspiredcreativity:
inspiredcreativity Featured By Owner Jul 31, 2013  Professional Digital Artist
Thank you for the information.  I have updated my New Testament post on inspiredcreativity.deviantart.… to show a much fuller list of Gay friendly churches, churches that do Gay Marriages, etc.

I included the link you gave me to the Affirming United Church of Canada.  It is located at the bottom of the first list, under CANADA.
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:iconpoliticalviolet:
PoliticalViolet Featured By Owner Jul 31, 2013   General Artist
You're welcome! That's great that you expanded the list!
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:iconlibertades:
Libertades Featured By Owner Jun 2, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
I've read all of these arguments and made researching about the bible condemning homosexuality, as far I have come, I can't decide which of these is true... I mean, I want to do God's will and live for him, but there's also someone I've fallen in love with, and I cannot live without.... literally; my interpersonal life is messed up.

I'm a chirstian, but I'm confused about if I should keep going this way feeling 100% safe, if you understand... and what about marriage and sexual relations...?

Sigh no... I still don't get over it... I mean... what about God creating Adam and Eve? If he did so, and it also says a man will abandon their father and mother to be one with his wife, I don't think it's about divorce... it just sounds so close from everything else.

What about the man being the lead of a family...? The bible says women does not have authority over the family... and it's a sin...
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:iconinspiredcreativity:
inspiredcreativity Featured By Owner Jun 3, 2013  Professional Digital Artist
Hi,

First, your internal battle is shared by many people all over the world, by both Christians and Muslims, as part of your internal acceptance of your homosexual nature, however much you might have. You are not alone. I was 13 and wanting to be a priest, and tried to kill myself over this, because my priest said hated me for feeling attractions to boys. It is an internal battle between your religious programming as a child, and what your heart tells you is true and natural. I speak more about this below.



EVERY WORD IN THE BIBLE INTERPRETED LITERALLY</b>

First of all, the core of your Christianity has to be your FAITH, your intent to be a good person and to follow the path that Jesus gave you. The rest pales in importance. Jesus gave you two Great Commandments, and said that the Law of the prophets (Old Testament) is based in them. If you follow them, everything else takes care of it self. If you love god and love your fellow mankind, you will not kill them, except by accident, nor steal, rape, lie, covet, etc. Christ’s Two Great Commandments puts the Old Testament in a completely new light and perspective. Most Christians I have seen have lost their way, focusing on words and not their own thoughts, intent and behavior.

After I give you some history of Bible below, and show that a Pope who decreed that every word in the Bible (Old & New Testaments) was Divinely Inspired, as if God wrote it himself. But Catholics have 73 books and Protestants have only 66. So was Luther defying god himself when rejecting 7 books of the bible? Blind faith that every word in your Bible is from God’s lips, is really blind faith in a Pope, a man, who decreed it so. There was great controversy about all of Paul’s letters and other scriptures being included, but never the 4 core Gospels. I believe that even Paul himself would be aghast at the notion of his letters being given equal status to Jesus.

Some Christians have attacked me here for questioning the word of God. This is totally untrue. I do not question the word of God, I question the words of man. People have taken great license in their translations. I will give you couple of examples in Paul below. If you have never translated before, it is hard to understand. Much of the Bible has no direct translation, like the parts written in poetic Greek style. Some areas have no direct translations, or cannot be understood without understanding the cultural context when it was written.

In English for example, the etymology of the phrase lady killer suggests either a lady who kills, or a person who kills ladies, but it really means a man who knows how to charm ladies. Every language has this, inkling Coptic Greek and Hebrew. The only reliable way to determine the meaning of a word or phrase is from how it is used, in what context it is used. I can go much deeper in this if you want, but I did not want to bore you.

The bible continues to be translated now. Example from Paul: Paul used the phrase of having, ”Faith, Hope and Charity”. The original and primary definition of the word Charity was ”To have universal Love for your fellow mankind.” If you look in the dictionary, you should see it listed, but labeled archaic. The meaning of Charity drifted to mean the voluntary giving of help. Therefore, more recent translations of Paul now say, “Faith, Hope and Love”. But the word Love is just not the same as Having universal love for your fellow mankind. This is a small drift in the meaning of a phrase, but multiply that thousands of years. If you continue to use the word charity, it would mislead most people reading it. These problems are throughout the Bible, losing original intent. Go all the way back to the original authors (impossible in most cases) and you will have the truth. Then it must be translated in a way you can understand it, but that automatically causes drift in the exact meanings.

ALLEGORY—STORY TELLING: Jesus and many in the Old Testament used Allegory & Story Telling to teach with, much of it very symbolic. When Genesis was written, there was no science for people to be able to understand any other explanation. How was God to explain to the prophets the concepts of how he created the Universe, life and mankind? God it explained it in a way that the people back then could understand it. It is also not easy to teach people to want to be good out of their own desire, wanting to overcome their own natural drives for Greed, Self-interest, Jealousy, Hate, etc. Teaching concepts is very difficult, especially to peoples who are uneducated in such things. But the Old Testament is also mixed ion with actual history, from a religious perspective, making it confusing to know which is which.

Some religious people see science as an enemy, but it is not. Science answers many questions, the big questions of origin, of what happens after death, etc, are left unanswered, and there is plenty of room for God to be the explanation, at least for most people. The church fought long and hard to protect the concept that the Sun was the center of the universe and that the earth was flat, even murdering people over it. When they finally had no choice but to accept it, did it have ruin people’s faith in God? Most scientists are Christians, Muslims, Buddhist, and Hindus.

Next, if you try to follow every word of the Bible literally, it is an impossible task, because the bible is itself contradictory, and it is contradictory to real life. You are commanded to not kill by God. Yet we kill on a massive scale, we even kill by drone, killing innocent children women and men in the process, and call it collated damage in our war against terrorists. You kill with your votes, so you cannot wash your hands of the blood. It is Ok for us to accidentally kill hundreds of innocent muslims with Drone strikes, but try to do it in America? What does this tell you about Christian values? Which Americans approve of torture? 71% of American Catholics, 65% of Protestants and only 51% of Seculars approve of torture. Do you see your church protesting to the government about crimes they are committing against humanity? There is a massive disconnect between what the Bible says, and what churches and people do.

Next, there are thousands of example of mistranslations of the Bible. We can go over this more if you want to.



Mahatma Gandhi once said, “I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.” I believe that most Christians have been lead astray. Goodness should come out of desire to be good, not out of fear of punishment, nor for promises of reward. Goodness has nothing to do with Sexual orientation. Loving homosexual couples can be fantastic Christians and fantastic people. It is not Jesus or God who said homosexuality was a sin. It was a mistranslation of Paul, then a lie perpetuated by men. They claim if it is the Bible, it was divinely inspired, and the one who decreed that was a Pope, a fallible man. If you want to say Popes are infallible, we can go over the long list of atrocities and crimes against humanity, on a massive scale, perpetuated directly by Popes, as well and centuries of massive corruption.

Since you are a Christian, why not try to follow the teachings of Jesus Christ? Focus on Matthew, mark, Luke & John, the only real witnesses to Jesus and his teachings that we have.

God never said anything against homosexuality in the Ten commandments, nor did Jesus, who never once said anything negative about homosexuals or homosexual sex. This is significant if you realize how much he was exposed to it. He grew up in a urban area densely populated by Roman garrisons and citizen, who openly engaged in homosexual sex, as part of their culture, as well as some Hebrews doing it very privately. In his some 34 years of life, he was bound to know of homosexual sex, yet he never chose to speak of it, when he did speck about many things obviously important to him and God.

The only people with a problem with Homosexuality, is other people, not God or Jesus.

If you focus on Christ’s TWO GREAT COMMANDMENTS, and Christ’s Sermon on the Mount (Matthew 5), and Christ’s Sermon on the Plain (Luke 6), this alone is a wonderful guide for how to live your life.

TWO GREAT COMMANDMENTS:
    MATTHEW 22 The New American Bible
    36 "Teacher, 21 which commandment in the law is the greatest?"
    37 He said to him, 22 "You shall love the Lord, your God, with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.
    38 This is the greatest and the first commandment.
    39 The second is like it: 23 You shall love your neighbor as yourself.
    40 24 The whole law and the prophets depend on these two commandments."
Note this last line. The whole law of the prophets is the Old Testament and Judaic law. These Commandments are how you are to interpret the Old Testament and the New Testaments.

There are churches worldwide, including the Episcopal church, some of the Lutheran Church, The United Church of Christ, The Unitarian church, and the MCC church (to name some of them), who teach that Homosexual Sex, within the confines of a Same-sex marriage or loving committed relationship, IS NOT A SIN. You can even be a homosexual couple and get married in these churches.

Why would they do this unless they interpret the Bible in a very different way from conservative churches? The answer is simple, Paul’s letters were mistranslated. The translators who translated Paul’s Coptic Greek, especially the words the Coptic Greek words Arsenokoites and Malakos, chose to define those words and a word-pair as homosexual, when those definitions are wrong and not in keeping with the usage of Coptic Greek in the first century.

The lie is perpetuated because they are so vested in it. Once they bought into the lie some 1,100 years ago, they became vested in it. They would then have to admit that they discriminated again, tortured, lobotomized and murdered hundreds of thousand of people, and driven far more to suicide, for nothing—they would have to admit they were wrong. It took over 2,000 years for the church to apologize for teaching that Mary Magdalene was a whore. She was very important in the early church, but they systematically destroyed her reputation, to be sure that women had no primary role in the church. She was very close to Jesus and part of his ministry.

Even the church itself did not interpret Paul’s letters or the story of Sodom & Gomorrah as having anything to do with homosexuality, until 1100AD, over a thousand years since the birth of Christ. The Jewish faith and the vast majority of Biblical Archeologists agree that Sodom & Gomorrah had nothing to do with homosexuality (we can discuss this in detail if you want, or you can read my SODOM DESTROYED ON 6-29-3129BC [link]. Homosexual practices were common in the Pagan people that the church was actively recruiting in the first thousand years of the church, but then the church wanted to shed all things Pagan. Did you know that Christ was not born in December, and that both Christmas sand Easter detests were set to match Pagan holidays? It was all about recruiting and expanding the church back then, and then it turned into gaining wealth, consolidating power, and controlling populations.

Further below, I give you some Bible History, showing how it came to be that some Pope decreed that the bible was Divinely Inspired, as if God himself had written every word. This put the Letters of Paul on equal footing as the words of Jesus Christ. If you believe that Popes are infallible, how do you explain all of the atrocities of the Popes, including genocide, such as Pope Innocent III (1160-1216) proclaimed he had a vision from God that the Cathari were heretic and declared Holy War against them, killing (including burning at the stake), approximately 40,000 children, women and men, all in the name of God. Popes wrote the book on torture. Popes gained personal wealth by selling indulgences. The corruption was so bad that it triggered the REFORMATION.




DOES GOD MAKE MISTAKES

Science has now proven that we are born Homosexual. Science has even convinced the Catholic church.
The Catholic church has now changed it official catechism to say that homosexuality is something people are born with and that it is God’s will. But they still maintain that even though God made you Homosexual, he is testing your faith by making you have to be celibate your entire life. This is plain crazy. Evolutionary wise, why have homosexuals not died out? Relatively few of us breed. The answer is that it is in the fundamental core DNA of Mammals and will always be with us, and not part of evolutionary natural selection. God obvious meant homosexuality to be part of the genome, part of his greater plan. Why? What we do know is that DIVERSITY in essential for a species vibrance and survivability, its ability to create and innovate.



BIBLE HISTORY

First, it is important to understand a little about where the Bible came from. There are a number of different bible used in the world today, depending on your Christian faith, including or excluding various different books. The First Council of Nicea, in 325 AD, was called by Roman Emperor Constantine, who also participated. He ordered all of the Christian bishops, who were scattered across the empire, to assemble in Nicea. Emperor Constantine had adopted Christianity as the state religion because he sought something which would unify the empire under one religion—however, a schism had developed between the Roman Church and the Gnostics, which threatened to dissolve that unity, and Constantine would not allow it. NOTE: The Roman Emperors had great sway in the course of the Church. Emperor Theodosius I even appointed a Pope himself.

The Gnostics were then ruled heretical and were hunted and murdered to extinction, their scriptures burned. The Roman Catholic church is what the Romans wanted. The scriptures of the Roman church supported slavery and was a patriarchal and hierarchal system, which is what Constantine and the later Emperors wanted. Constantine decreed that anyone who possessed a gospel other than Matthew, Mark Luke or john, would be executed. A vote was held over if Jesus was divine or not, resulting in the adoption of the Holy Trinity, of the Father, son and holy spirit.

Constantine ordered the Church to produce a unified written theology (The New Testament). There were a series of Synods where men debated and haggled over what to include and what to ban. There are a number of banned gospels. Here are some you can read about:
    The Gospels of James [link]
    Gospel of Judas [link]
    The Gospel of Mary [link]
    The Gospel According to Mary Magdalene [link]
A lot of politics went into the haggling, deals made. In about 367 AD, St. Athanasius came up with a list of 73 books for the Bible, and Pope Damasus I formally approved it in 382, decreeing it as DIVINELY INSPIRED, as if every single word was written by God himself. This gave every single word in the new Testament, equal standing to the words of Jesus Christ. The Synod of Hippo, in northern Africa, in 393, finished fine-tuning the Bible, as it stands today, together with the Septuagint books, 73 books. Martin Luther didn’t like 7 books of the Old Testament and removed them, so Protestants have 66 books in their Bible. Martin Luther originally also removed books of the New Testament (including Revelations), but later changed his mind.

Again, blind faith that every word in your Bible is from God’s lips, is really blind faith in a Pope, a man, who decreed it so. There was great controversy about all of Paul’s letters and other scriptures being included, but never the 4 core Gospels. I believe that even Paul himself would be aghast at the notion of his letters being given equal status to Jesus.



INTERNAL WAR

You are ultimately in a war between your heart and what you have been programmed with all of your life. Some kids are programmed to brutalize others, some programmed to be white supremacists and hate others from birth onward, others programmed to hate Muslims or one form of muslims, or Catholics, or Protestants, or blacks, or homosexuals… Hate is hate. Saying, “We hate the sin, not the sinner,” sound good, but in practicality, they hate us Sexual Minorities.

The very biggest step in COMING-OUT is Coming-Out to YOURSELF. This means to come to fully love, accept and embrace your homosexual nature, however much of it you have. Most of us have to battle with the programming of our childhood, when we were programmed to see homosexuality as a prevision, disgusting and so on. When I was 13 years old, I was an Altar Boy and I priest told us boys, “When a boy is attracted to another boy, he is an ABOMINATION in the eyes of God, doomed to burn for an eternity in the everlasting fires of Gahanna.” I was unable to understand how God could hate me. I had never asked for those feeling and I had done everything possible to stop them, and no one had done anything to me, so God must have made me this way. Why would God hate his own creation, why would God hate a boy who had devoted his life to God, and wanted to be a priest? I tired to kill myself days later.

Christian Hate and intolerance has killed millions of kids in the history of Christianity. Half of all boys in the USA who kill themselves or try to kill themselves, are Gay, Bisexual or Transgender. God does not do this to these kids, it is Christians and Muslims who do this world-wide.

So, the battle rages on inside of yourself—who will win? If you try to deny your homosexual nature, it will haunt you all of your life and it will be a barrier to sustained happiness and fulfillment in life. I am not saying you should have sex with women, but I am saying that it is important to accept and love who you are.

I am not defined by my homosexuality, not at all. Homosexuality is an intrinsic part of who I am, but it does not define me. I have lived a pretty normal life and my life with Greg has been very normal family situation. We live openly in a regular neighborhood and have both straight and gay freinds. We are fully integrated into society and are almost always accepted. Sometimes in my life I have faced direct hatred, but I just shrug it off. I learned to love myself and I learned how to love myself, when I used to hate myself.

I have given my life, from age 34 to present (59 in august) to Full-time volunteer work. I started out feeding the hungry, then added Peer Counseling (UW), then added in-home care for those dying of AIDS, the secondary and later Primary care of the dying. Do I sound like a person deserving of burning in Hell?

Most Christian adults would say I am going to burn in hell for being a faggot. Will god judge you for the life you have lived, for the valued you have maintained, for your help to those in need, or will god toss you into hell for all of eternity, no matter how good you lived your life, just for being born a Sexual Minority? Does that sound like the God Jesus talks about?

There is a huge disconnect with Christians and the teachings of the Bible. They point to homosexuals as sinners, then they support torture, support drone murders, vote against money for social programs… the reality is that most Christians, like all humans, are primarily driven by GREED and SELF-INTEREST, and are very JUDGMENTAL of others. People can be generous at times, when it is convenient and on their own selective terms, but how generous, considering their means?

In Seattle we cannot get enough donations to feed Street Youth, many of which were thrown out of their homes by Christian parents, for being a Sexual Minority. But those same people voted for a billion dollars for two new sports stadiums. Our schools are falling apart and the kids do not have enough text books.

But they do put a lot of energy into hating Queers.

Ok, so I am just trying to show you the disconnect between Christians who go to Bible study weekly, but pick and choose which words they will listen to in the Bible.

Paul says that women are to be silent and obedient to men, not to preach or teach men, and must wear long hair, etc, etc and says theta men are better off celibate than with women. Is it a terrible sin to break those rules in his letters? Did Paul get those things direct from God, after all, his words are decreed as Divinely inspired.

Are there very man Christians who are actually trying at all to live Christ like?



ADVICE

For me, Making-Love is wondrous expression of my love for my partner, a deep intimacy. Making-Love with my partner of 23 years is an act of great beauty and celebration of our love. I have only ever had sex twice out of a relationship (not counting being raped), and when I did it those two times, it left me feeling very empty and unfulfilled, so I stopped doing it.

Christian theological law says that ANY SEX outside of marriage is a sin, even if you are Straight. But if it is a loving committed relationship it is a different story. Churches inset that you must have the ceremony in their church. The catholic church will not recognize your marriage if not done in a Catholic church, and you will go to hell. But true marriage takes place in your hearts, with or without ceremony. You can have the ceremony and have it be empty and loveless.

What is a Christian? A Christian is anyone following Jesus Christ. You do not even have to belong to a church. Spirituality is ultimately a very personal thing, where a church is more of a group affair, like a club with lots of rules. It is like going to college. You do not have to or need to join a fraternity or Sorority, and can still be an excellent scholar. God, I believe, will judge you on your individual path. Claiming to god that you did bad things because your church said it was Ok, will not cut it. You are responsible for your own choices in life, no matter what churches say.

My best advice to you for being a good Christian, should yo want it, is to follow the teachings of Jesus Christ and not worry about the rest. Jesus gave you all you need. Jesus was INCLUSIVE not exclusive. Jesus looked to the our intent, for where are heat is. Jesus would rather people look to their own soul, rather than judging others and being so concerned with the state of other people’s soul.

Does your Intent come from a place of Love? Is there anything dirty or wrong from your romantic love of someone of the same gender? Do you harm anyone from the love? Do you celebrate Jesus and God? Do you follow the Two Great Commandments? Because if you do, you need absolutely no other scriptures. Jesus wants those two Great Commandments to be your sole guiding light to God.



CONCLUSION

Parts of the Bible were written to maintain a patriarchal family structure, to keep women subservient to men. The early Hebrews were totally nomadic in nature, and their laws made sense for the way they lived, which was harsh and very survival oriented. The Roman Emperors like Constantine wanted Christianity as a unifying factor in the empire, because it was the only religion that directed supported slavery and both a Patriarchal and Hierarchal structure with centralized poet, which made it easier to control.

What did Jesus say about the role of women? Read Matthew, Mark, Luke & John carefully, and see how Jesus felt about it. He spoke for God. You do not needs the words of Paul or anyone else—Center yourself in Christ.



This was already long, so I did not want to keep on, without finding out where you key concerns are. For example if you want detailed information on the mis-translations of Paul, I can send it to you.

I hope this was of some help. If you need more information, just let me know.

Regards,

Matthew

PS, sorry for the many errors, I ran out of time to edit it.
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:iconlibertades:
Libertades Featured By Owner Jun 3, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
You are amazing.
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:iconmikkimoo27:
Mikkimoo27 Featured By Owner Feb 25, 2013  Hobbyist Digital Artist
hmm, and here I was saying the bible was written by homophobic disciples. I apologize, and thank you for setting me straight :)
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