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Please also see my deviation on [link] (The New Testament + Homosexuality).
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God Does NOT Condemn You For Your Homosexuality, Or For The Sexual Fulfillment Of Your Homosexual Love—God Welcomes You.
I have added a HOT-LINKED Table of Contents and much more Information and References. I have also included a HOT-LINKED Index of the Biblical References used throughout the document.
This is an in-depth look at how Jesus and the early Christian Church accepted Same-Sex Loving Relationships and Same-Sex Sex within the context of a committed relationship.
The Old Testament is a Christian version of events, which is different from the TORA of the Jewish Faith. Of the main branches of the Jewish Faith, only one is against Homosexuality, with Reform Judaism, Reconstructionist Judaism, and Conservative Judaism all being fine with Homosexuality.
I hope that his helps some of you reconcile your Christian Faith with your Homosexuality or Bisexuality. For others it will act as a handy guide to COUNTER Homophobic Christians who use Scriptures as a weapon against us.
GAY FRIENDLY CHURCHES NEAR YOU
Churches that specifically teach that Homosexual Sex in a Monogynous Homosexual relationship is NOT A SIN:
[link] (METROPOLITAN COMMUNITY CHURCHES [MCC]) are GAY CHURCHES and they are located all over the world. [link] (Find One Near You.)
[link] (The UNITARIAN UNIVERSALIST Church)
[link] (THE UNITED CHURCH OF CHRIST [UCC])
[link](The UNITED CHURCH OF CANADA)
There are a small number of LUTHERAN CHURCHES that see homosexual sex in committed relationships as a non-sin, but most see it as sin.
LUTHERAN CHURCHES that see homosexual sex in committed relationships as a non-sin, but most see it as sin.
WARNING: There are many so called "Gay Friendly" Christian and Catholic Churches around who invite you in, then preach to you that you live in Sin.
In this paper, I often present multiple approaches and argument for passage in question. For example, translators have use the word Homosexual when no such word even existed when the scriptures were written. Translators of many modern printings have inserted words that are designed to inflame hatred.
Despite new correct translations, Bible publishers are under strong economic pressures to turn a profit. If a translation of lets say Leviticus 18:22 were included that did not generally condemn at least male homosexual behavior, their sales would drop precipitously. They are unlikely to deviate from traditional interpretations, unless they were preparing a translation specifically for Christian and Jewish liberals.
WORDS CAN KILL GBLT KIDS. There are Christians whose words drive GBLT CHILDREN TO THEIR DEATHS IN VERY LARGE NUMBERS. It may seem that the Christian Fundamentalists are harmless, but the poison and lies they spread do great, great harm. Since many of these Fundamentalist Christians believe that their Bigotry and Discrimination is Justified by the Bible, they could care less if they drive children to suicide. After all they are doing "God's Work."
It is my hope that these two papers on the Bible and Homosexuality, will help to educate kids about the truth and save lives.
PLEASE NOTE: I wrote this paper to help people, not to attract Christian BIGOTS, generate religious arguments, debate or hate attacks. This is not the proper Forum for that. If you do not agree with this paper that is your right, as it is your right to state that. However, I will not engage in counter arguments because the only thing homosexuals ever hear are the constant litany of lies of Conservative Fundamentalist Christians. No more such is needed here. Any attacking or Hate-based comments will be hidden.
I am a Humanist centered in COMPASSION. I actively choose to be a good person out of my own DESIRE, not from the threat of a Hell, the promise of a Heaven, nor belief in Gods. I am a Spiritual man in my own way. I have studied Christian Theology over the years, as well as comparative theology.
Matthew Barry ©2009, 2010, 2011, 2012
About God being cruel and evil, i wouldn't argue about that. In my opinion, calling God being merciful and loving completely is really contradicting. In the Bible, God did admit of being the God of evil and darkness (Isaiah 45:7,
, 2 Kings 6:33). Being the monotheistic He is, it makes sense because God create everything. However, it's saddening that the Christians, Muslims, and arguably others who don't read much into the passage about God kinda ignored that part and preach that God is the god of "everything good" in their holy prayer which really He also create the bad side. No wonder people questioned, "Oh, if God is really compassionate and merciful, why does he allow evil existed?" Additionally, while the Christians and Muslims view God to be loving and good, the Jewish viewed God to be cruel and unforgiving which may explained the contradictions on how God was like between the Old Testament and the New Testament.
While my religion class was reading the Sodom story, i thought i'm expecting some homophobic tone in the passage with the controversy it has been given due to it. When i finished reading it, i was confused because it didn't mention about homosexuality nor the men attempting to rape the angels. So i look into your passage and it clear my confusion, i'm grateful about it. To add some info to it, weren't the angel's gender never revealed in the Bible? Most modern media depicted angels to be feminine and womanlike, but forget that the angel's gender never reveal. The old times depicted the angels to be masculine and warlike which doesn't help. Angels in the Bible were called "He", but obviously in terms of being dominant just like how God was often called "He". Thus, the truth on whether the men want to rape, have sex (consensual), or physically attack the angels make the interpretation more questionable, the same way whether the men are gay or not.
SODOM DESTROYED ON 6-29-3129BCSODOM DESTROYED ON 6-29-3129BC
SODOM & GOMORRAH DESTROYED BY ASTEROID ON 6-29-3129 BCE
Sodom and Gomorra were two ancient Early-Bronze-Age cities in a fertile region of the Middle East, near the Dead Sea. The time is shortly before dawn on 6-29-3129 BCE, and 600 miles (966 Km) from Sodom & Gomorrah, there are two Samarian Astronomers observing the skies. They observed a fiery body traveling across the night sky. They inscribed its path and it relative course and position against the stars on a clay disk, called a Planisphere. Dr. Hempsall and Alan Bond deciphered the clay disk and used computers to recreate the night sky thousands of years ago. They pinpointed the sighting of the ancient astronomers to shortly before dawn on June 29 in the year 3123 B.C.
The asteroid, which was about 1.25 Km (0.78 Miles) in diameter, exploded above the ground with a force of a 10,000 megaton nuclear weapon (100 times more powerful than any nuclear weapon on earth).
The original Christian religion, after the death of Jesus, became very fractured in who believed what. The gnostics, of the eastern church, wherever inclusive of women and in fact had women priests. They were very spiritual and did not have a hierarchal power structure like the western church had. There also believed Jesus to be the son of god, but not dene. The western church came up with the Holy trinity, claimed that jesus was divine. When Constantine battle control of the Roman Empire, it was very fractured with multiple pagan Gods and temples. Constantine decided to unite the fractured and failing empire under one religion, as a uniting factor. He chose Christianity. the story of his conversion was a lie. He refused both conversion and baptism until his death, when it was done to him as he died.
But Emperor Constantine had a problem, the Christian church was fractured in two at this point, the Western and Eastern churches. Constantine order bishops from all over the roman empire to convene in Nicea, which became known as the "First Council of Nicea." But the Eastern lands were very far away and the eastern church not much represented. Constantine wanted the Western church to prevail because it was Patriarchal (run by men, power in the hands of men), it had a hierarchal power structure similar to Roman power structure, making the church easier for the Romans to control, and Western Christianity supported slavery, a key to Roman prosperity. The result of the First Counsel of Nicea was that the Gnostics were told to convert to Western beliefs or die. The who did not convert were hunted and killed, all of their teachings burned and banned. It was genocide.
The church had only one place for women, as servants, to become "Brides of Christ" and not allowed an power of their own. The roman Emperors had a lot of influence on the early Chirstian church, which man deny now, but it is part of the historical record.
Nothing in the New Testament speaks against Slavery, and a number of passages support slavery, which was very much a part of life in Judea, Galilee, and in the rest of the Roman Empire during New Testament times, and up to the 19th century. While in prison, Paul met a runaway slave, Onesimus, the property of a Christian, presumably Pheliemon, and ordered him back to his owner (see Paul: Letter to Philemon).
In the King James Bible, the word for SLAVE was replaced by Servant or Maid, a very deliberate deception. In the New Testament, you can find Paul’s infamous instruction that slaves to obey their owners in the same way that they obey Christ (Ephesians 6:5-9). In Matthew 18:25, people in debt, and their children, should be sold to make payment. In Mark 14:66, Priests owned slaves. Colossians 4:1 and 1 Timothy 6:1-3 give instructions to slaves and slave owners in proper behavior. There are more passages...
THE LITTLE ICE AGE: Western Europe experienced a general cooling of the climate between the years 1150 and 1460 and a very cold climate between 1560 and 1850 that brought dire consequences to its peoples. The colder weather impacted agriculture, health, economics, social strife, emigration, and even art and literature. This even helped to set up perfect conditions for the Bubonic Plague to strike and decimate the population. Increased glaciation and storms also had a devastating affect on those that lived near glaciers and the sea.
Attendance at churches was down, which meant collections of money was down. The Catholic Church, starting in the 11th Century, responded by creating common evil enemies that people would fear, thus bringing them back into the fold. Going after Homosexuals and Pagans was a first step. But conditions got worse. Starvation, hunger, disease, lawlessness and violence increased.
Also in the 11th century, Pope Innocent III (1160-1216) proclaimed he had a vision from God that the Cathari were heretic and declared Holy War against them, killing (including burning at the stake), approximately 40,000 children, women and men, all in the name of God. It was a time to find others to blame for the problems of the day, and to help the Church consolidate power.
In 1484, Pope Innocent VIII blamed the Little Ice Age on witches, leading to centuries of innocent women and men being burned at the stake, for nothing. He had inquisitors Heinrich Kramer and Jacobus Sprenger systemize the persecution of witches. He said they could raise hailstorms, lightning, violent storms, wretched cold… He did it because people were giving less money to the church and fewer people were going to church.
The Christianization of Pagan Holidays
Emperor Constantine went further by incorporated the Pagan holidays and festivals into the Christian church ritual—attracting the Pagans, but he gave the holidays and festivals new "Christian" names and identities—thus appeasing the Christians. Christmas, Easter and Sunday services (which were normally celebrated on the Sabbath, Saturday) were all actually Pagan holidays and celebrations.
Early Christian believers kept Saturday as the Sabbath until March 7, 321 CE when Emperor Constantine passed a law requiring believers to worship on Sunday, the day the pagans worshipped the sun-god. Believers still kept Saturday as the Sabbath until another law was passed eleven years later. This law signed into decree by Emperor Constantine forbid believers to worship on the Sabbath (Saturday) and it was punishable by death by the Catholic Church. Many believers were burned to death by the Catholic Church for keeping the Sabbath.
Jesus was not even born in the winter, let alone December 25th (winter solstice), which was a major Pagan holiday shared between many Pagan faiths, with roots from the Persians, Babylon, Arabia and Egypt. Every sun-god was born on December 25th. Amun-Ra, Horus, Mithra, Tammuz, and Zeus were born on December 25th. Yule is the Babylonian name for Infant, in the Pagan festival commemorating the figurative birthday of the sun and the renewal of its course. The Yule occult colors are Red & Green.
The Christmas tree is Nimrod revived—the slain god come to life again. The Christmas tree was equally common in Pagan Rome and Pagan Egypt. The mistletoe branch symbolized "the man, the branch" and was regarded as a divine branch, a Babylonian representation of the true Messiah. Both mistletoe and holly were considered fertility plants by the pagans. Candles which are lit on Christmas Eve and used throughout the festival season, were equally lighted by the Pagans on the eve of the festival of the Babylonian god, to do honor to him.
Easter, the Easter Bunny and eggs are all rooted in Pagan rituals/celebrations/holidays. One mythological legend says that sometime after Semiramis died, a huge egg dropped from heaven. Out of the egg came a re-incarnated Semiramis, now a goddess. The Babylonian Talmud refers to her as Ishtar, or Easter. The forty days of Lent symbolize one day for each year of Tammuz' life. This period of time is celebrated in the "Christian" church by giving up something to mourn the death of Tammuz, the son of the pagan goddess Semiramis! The (Easter) bunny is the oldest pagan symbol of fertility—Semiramis. The date of Easter is also celebrated by the Druids. In ancient times, eggs were used in the religious rites of the Egyptians and the Greeks, and were hung up for mystic purposes in their temples… The classic poets are full of the fable of the mystic egg of the Babylonians.
Even now, as you see Christianity practiced in Africa, south America, Australia, and other areas, you will see the roots of their Pagan cultures embedded in their Christian traditions.
New Zealanders are actually very narrow-minded. The majority believe everything the media tells them. They know little outside of that. The Euthanasia debate is a good example. But they are friendly for sure - especially in most parts of Auckland.
Two men, naturally, can not make babies. Sure, science may find a strange way, but the same goes for cloning - it is not what nature intended at all.
to do with that. NATURE AT ITS FINEST RIGHT THERE.
Two men make babies to have a family just like anyone else. However, most adopt either babies or older children. I was a foster Father and I can adopt babies and children, where so many heterosexual people will not, leaving large numbers of children in orphanages and foster homes and group homes. Children over age are considered non-adoptable because people simply do not want older children. There is a black market in babies, because straight people generally only want babies. It is a good thing the Sexual Minority Community is stepping up to do what heterosexual people will not.
If you really want to dig into church history, take a look at the large influence on church teachings and the assembly of the bible by the roman emperors, starting with Constantine and the fist Council of Nicea, as well as the huge disagreement even about the holy trinity and if Jesus, as the son of god, was actually divine. the we can go into the genocide committed by the Catholic church or the mass corruption of the Popes, especially around purchasing indulgences , church positions, annulments even after consummating a marriage, and on and on.
Pope Innocent III (1160-1216) proclaimed he had a vision from God that the Cathari were heretic and declared Holy War against them, killing (including burning at the stake), approximately 40,000 children, women and men, all in the name of God. It was a time to find others to blame for the problems of the day, and to help the Church consolidate power. In 1484, Pope Innocent VIII blamed the Little Ice Age on witches, leading to centuries of innocent women and men being burned at the stake, for nothing. He had inquisitors Heinrich Kramer and Jacobus Sprenger systemize the persecution of witches. He said they could raise hailstorms, lightning, violent storms, wretched cold…
The so called original teachings of the Catholic church were based in IGNORANCE and written by by the ignorant over a very long period of time, necessitation the Vatican Council II to try to clean up the mess.
Want to talk about atrocities? How about the American war-mongering presidents of late? Obama, Bush, etc. Obama bombs civilians with drones. The US committed the biggest terrorist act in all of history: Hiroshima: the killing of over 150,000 innocent civilians in the most horrible manner. How about the abortion industry murdering millions of defenseless babies every year? How about the Muslim wars in the Middle East that have been going on since forever and that are being brought to Europe? How about the pornography industry and its impact on society? All mankind is to blame for evil. Not just individuals claiming to do things in the name of the Church. History is full of evil people like that.
The original and true teaching of the Church will always be hated by the world and the world's followers - Christ said that often enough. It is no surprise that there is so much hatred toward Her. But God will triumph over ignorance and ill-informed hatred. As they say, "haters gonna hate". Do not judge the Church on the acts of some evil men - otherwise every institution in the entire world must be judged so - including the homosexual lobby.
"If the world hates you, remember that it hated Me first". And you think Christ's plan was to be buddy-buddy with the world?? Are you serious? Think again. The Church is at war with the powers of darkness. Liberals and modernists are fighting too. I'll let you guess which side they're on. (Hint: it sure as heck isn't Our Lord's side!)
Next, the atrocities I speak of were ordered by Popes, bishops and other church officials, the very people who wrote the theology of the catholic church, its catechism, it rules and enforcement, all in the name of church and in the name of God. If the people who wrote the theology are curt, the theology is likely corrupt. Paul and Peter fought of theology and Peter, the supposed rock of the church, lost.
The original and true teachings of Jesus have been well received in history, other than the brief period after the death of Jesus, with persecution by the Romans. Even Mohamed embraced most of the teachings of Jesus and speaks of him and his teachings in the Qur'an. I do not blame the teachings of Jesus for all of the evil that has happened in his name, but I do blame those who then distorted the teachings of Jesus, including Paul and the Catholic church, as being directly responsible for much of the evil done in the lost 2000 years. When it comes to the evil acts perpetrated since the birth of Jesus, the vast majority of it falls to the hands of Christian and Muslims, when compared to the other religions of the world.
I fully agree the humanity itself is more evil and corrupt and good.
When you and others speak "war with the powers of darkness" and Christian warriors, you go against the very teachings of Jesus. You incite violence and justification for violence and discriminate and the harming of others, in the name of God. The very word 'WAR' is about conflict, violence, hostility, combat, fighting. In fact, as a Christian, your first duty is to your own soul, before you start pointing the finger at the wrongdoing of others, as you should know if you have carefully read the words of Jesus.
To understand want to know what Christianity is truly about, I highly suggest you read the Two Great Commandments (Matthew 22), The Sermon on the Mount (Matthew 5), and Sermon on the Plain (Luke 6). In fact, when you actually read Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, you will that many of the teachings of the Catholic church do not stem from the words of Jesus, and at times are in conflict with the message of Jesus.
MATTHEW 22 [The New American Bible]
36 "Teacher, 21 which commandment in the law is the greatest?"
37 He said to him, 22 "You shall love the Lord, your God, with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.
38 This is the greatest and the first commandment.
39 The second is like it: 23 You shall love your neighbor as yourself.
40 24 The whole law and the prophets depend on these two commandments."
Technically, you need no other rules in your religion than these two Great Commandments. Christ says that ALL of the law of the Old Testament and New Testament DEPEND on those TWO GREAT COMMANDMENTS. Obviously, if you love God and you Love your neighbor, you will not rape, covet, steal, lie, discriminate against them for being Gay, or any other of it. But this is not good enough for people. People demand to know EXACTLY what to do and what not to do to get in the pearly gates of Heaven. People do not NEED tons of rules, but people WANT tons of rules to guide them. However, there is a huge problem with focusing on the detailed rules of what to do and what not to do.
You can follow every rule of the Catholic church, avoid all sin, give to charity and sill be denied heaven, unless you love your fellow mankind and God.
You speak a language of hate and intolerance, as does the Catholic church and some other Christian Churches. You calling to not hate the sinner, yet your actions and words are those of hate, and your actions and words felt in the death, torture, violence and discrimination against an entire class of people.
Half of all boys who kill themselves or attempt to kill them are homosexual or bisexual, and they are driven to suicide by people like you, by your intolerance, discrimination and hate. Yes, words can kill and your words can kill, but you wildest wash your hands of the blood, like Pontius Pilate, refusing to take responsibility. You will have to answer for it.
Also, while you read Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, very carefully, note that Jesus does not once hint at or talk of homosexual sex or same-sex sex as being a bad thing, in any way, anywhere in his words. this is significant since he was born and raised in Judea, part of the Roman Empire, living in an urban city heavily populated by Roman citizens and Roman Garrisons , who openly practiced homosexual sex as part of their normal sexual practices. It was also practiced by the Hebrews as well, of course, albeit less openly. In his 34 to 35 years of life he had to have know about because it was all over the walls of the cities in graffiti (very popular then) and something practiced all around him, YET, Jesus chose to never mention it once, while other things he mentioned multiple times. You can argue that just because he does not mention something is wrong does not mean it is right, but in this case, when something is blatantly in his face, if it was an issue, he would have said something. He does talk about adultery, and that would apply to ALL people, gay or straight.
Paul never mentions homosexuality or same-sex sex either, but his words were mistranslated into Latin and later into the other languages. The is easily verified by scholars of Coptic Greek and of the Judaen culture of the time of Jesus. The Catholic church is so vested in the lie that it feels it cannot allow the truth.
I fully agree that not all Catholics and Christians are bad. I do say the Catholic church is deeply corrupt in both theology and in practice. I have seen it from the inside out.
Next, you once again discriminate against a class of people, being a bigot, when you use the term "liberal" as you do. When i talk about Christians and Catholics, I do not lump them altogether. I do challenge the theology and the practice of some churches and religions, scudding Christianity, Islam, Hinduism and Buddhism. PEOPLE corrupt teachings. You take the beautiful message of Jesus and turn it into hate and intolerance, into harming others and then hiding behind Jesus to justify it.
It is particularly upsetting to see bigotry by homosexuals against bisexuals, Gay men against Lesbians, Lesbians agains Gay men, Jocks against effeminate and on and on.
That resolution was such a surprise, and a learning about jewish laws that until now it surprises me. This young girl took advantage of the literal reading of the sacred texts to love abother woman without guilt.
My beliefs will remain changing, but knowing that Sodom may not refer to Homosexuality makes me feel better. What a good reading.
Even the Jewish faith never interpreted Sodom & Gomorrah to be about homosexuality.
I hope people realize and stop blaming homosexual people for who they sleep with
also, even if the gomorrah and sodom story refered to homosexuality, no one can criticize someone else for who they love or feel sexualli attracted to. No one has died because of people being homosexual U.U
You see a lot of people hung up on laws and rules. As we shall see bellow, Jesus felt that you only needed to rules to live your life by and to know what was right and wrong by. But people do not want something you have to think about and figure out. Most humans demand ceremony, ritual, and tons of rules. They want to know exactly what they must do and must not do to avoid hell and gain entry into heaven. But this is not the way of Jesus Christ. You can follow every single rule of your church, plus give to charity and do good works, and NOT gain entry into heaven. Heaven is predicated on the Two Great Commandments that Jesus gave us, to love god and to love your fellow mankind. You can follow all of the rules, not commit sins and do good woks, without having that love in your heart. But this is not what most Christian churches teach.
We start with a premise of right and wrong. What makes something a sin? What if your car slides on ice and kills someone—is this a sin, haven't you have just killed someone? What if you were drinking alcohol and have an accident that was aggravated by your poor reflexes (negligence)—is this a sin? What if you are verbally fighting with someone who becomes afraid of you, then runs away and falls down the stairs, dying—is this a sin? What if you have been abused horribly for decades, then emotionally and mentally break, and in a fog, kill your abuser—is this a sin? What if you start taking the antidepressant Prozac and it makes you go crazy and kill someone—is this a sin? What if you are robbing a store and the clerk's heart starts beating erratically, sow he is sent to the hospital by ambulance, but the ambulance is in a traffic accident and the clerk dies (actual case)—is this a sin? [The robber was convicted of premeditated murder under the Felony Murder Law that says if anyone dies as a result of you committing a felony crime, it is treated as if you planned and intended the death.]
I could keep giving you many examples, but my point to you is the SIN is not determined by the act itself, it is determined by the INTENT. In fact, you can commit a sin in your mind, without ever actually physically committing the sin. Laws are rigid and cannot account for the real world. To know if something is a sin, you must look to intent. If you had no idea something was wrong to do, a sin, then you had no intent to commit a sin, and thus no sin was committed. You cannot determine sin by just writing a rule. This is the message of Jesus Christ in giving us only TWO GREAT COMMANDMENTS, in which Jesus said that ALL of the laws of the prophets depend.
- THE TWO GREAT COMMANDMENTS
If you are Christian Leaning, there is something incredibly simple given to you by Jesus Christ, to be your sole needed guiding light for determining your spiritual path and in determining Right from Wrong:
MATTHEW 22 The New American Bible
"Teacher, 21 which commandment in the law is the greatest?"
He said to him, 22 "You shall love the Lord, your God, with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.
This is the greatest and the first commandment.
The second is like it: 23 You shall love your neighbor as yourself.
24 The whole law and the prophets depend on these two commandments."
How can you commit sin in your mind, without ever actually physically doing the act? Let us say a married man greatly desires his neighbor's wife in a sexual way, and she shows an equal interest. He starts to plan how to make it happen, but then realizes that this is wrong and he decides to not to commit the sin of adultery. Temptation itself is never a sin or every human would go to hell. We are human and human nature itself gives arise to sinful temptations, such as greed. With his choice to stop the behavior, no sin is committed. HOWEVER, let us say that the man and woman plan to meet, but then he becomes afraid of being caught and stops. In this case, the man has committed the sin of adultery. He went through with his INTENT and CHOICE of committing the sin, and was only stopped by either fear or circumstances, otherwise he would have gone through with it.
SIN VERSES RULES FOR LIVING HEALTHY
In the Old Testament, how do you know which part is story, which part is allegory and which part is actual law as given by the Prophets? When the Jews are prohibited from eating pork, this was really a rule to prevent people from dying of food poisoning, since pigs were often the cause of food poising deaths. Pigs ate 'unclean things" including sewage and rotten or contaminated food, and this can be passed on to those who then eat the pigs. Somehow this was then made into a sin, just as Catholics made it a sin to eat meat on Fridays. These rules have nothing to do with right and wrong or sin, and everything to do with rules meant to keep you healthy. Not having sex before marriage is the same way. Getting pregnant outside of marriage, in ancient times, was a disaster. Some Christian Faiths say that enjoying sex is a sin, because sex is only meant to procreate. If this were true, why would god create humans to enjoy sex?
What you have is thousands of years of people making up rules, giving opinions and then codifying it into law over time. Therefore, how do you know which part is story, which part is allegory and which part is actual law as given by the Prophets? You must use both common sense and the Two Great Commandments given by Jesus, who also said, "The whole law and the prophets depend on these two commandments."
The Old Testament was originally all about Nomadic Hebrews. Nomadic Hebrews saw cities as a sin and inhospitality as the greatest sin of all. Many of the 'rules' and 'laws' of the Hebrews were based in nomadic law, survival under very harsh conditions and with very limited resources. It was also a very cruel law, necessitated by survival. Disobey and die. Disobey your father and die. Society was extremely rigid. But again, Law and Rules for a society are different from SIN. The Old Testament lumps them all together, while other parts are more of a history, or allegory story telling.
If you read my Old Testament & Homosexuality it will take you through every mention of same-sex sexuality in the Old Testament, to show the translations problems, context problems, interpretations problems, etc.
Historically, homosexuality was tolerated and generally accepted throughout the ancient lands and in aboriginal populations on all of the continents, including Native Americans and even Pacific Islanders. Native americans called us Two-Spirits because we were the bridge between the two gender spirits. Ancient tribal societies typically had a homosexual Shaman or Medicine man/woman. We tended to be tribal negotiators and teachers. Homosexuality was openly practiced in the vast Persian empire, Greek empire and Roman Empire. Active Christian opposition seems to have started around 1100 AD.
Well, I could keep going, but I have no idea how much detail you want, and I do not want to bore you to death, lol. I hope this is of some help.
We had no sex education in those days. I was autistic and very sheltered and isolated. I actually did not know what sex was until I was age 19, nor what homosexuality or Gay was. I did not even know what swear words meant. But by age 12 I knew that I was different from other boys and how I was different, because i was following around cute boys since age 11. I had already been in love with a boy named Anton Wild, but alas, he was an exchange student and had to go back to the UK. Just a day after I turned 13, I confessed to my Aunt, "I feel about boys the way I am supposed to feel about girls." She dismissed it as a phase boys go through.
After I graduated from a Merchant Marine Academy and going to sea for a living on supertanker ships, I came-out to my father, which was rather terrifying at the time. My father was a strict Catholic who went to church every single day. I was stunned to find out that he had no problem at all with my Homosexuality. He is the one who first to actively help me accept my homosexuality. He also pointed out that while what Jesus said is very important, what Jesus did 'not' say is also of importance. Some things Jesus brought up more than once, obviously believing them to be of importance, while he never once talked about homosexuality or same-sex sex, as witnessed by Matthew, Mark, Luke & John. My father challenged me to carefully read the New Testament from cover to cover, specifically looking for any mentions of homosexuality. He said that biblical scholars have been questioning the translations of Paul for hundreds of years, so you might want to do some research yourself.
I decided to start researching the issue of Homosexuality and Christianity. Christians said that the Bible condemned people like me to hell, so i decided that if Christians were going to use the Bible against me as a weapon of hate, I needed to know everything possible about it, to help me let go of depression, to be able to defend myself, and to help others who were like me. Catholics are masters of the art of guilt and shame for purposes of manipulation and control. It is not unusual for Catholics to feel guilt and shame over things where they actually have zero responsibility for whatever happened. I had lingering feelings of guilt and shame for being homosexual (Internalized Homophobia).
I not only studied the bible, I studied the history of the bible's creation, the history of Christianity and the history of the times of Jesus. I studied about the culture as well. I found out about a minister (Reverend Troy Perry) who founded a Gay Christian church called the MCC (Metropolitan Community Church). I read the book that he wrote where he analyzed the translations and cultural aspects of homosexuality in the bible. The entire New Testament was written in Coptic Greek. This set me off on new research in translation problems from Coptic Greek, from the time when Jesus, the apostles and Paul lived, into Latin and the then the modern languages. I then branched out to study Buddhism, Islam and Native American Traditions, although I know a lot less about those faiths than I do about Christianity.
As the years have gone by, Bible Archeology has advanced considerably, along with our knowledge of the Judaea culture during the life of Jesus, and our knowledge of Coptic Greek. The problem is that most Christian churches are completely vested in a lie, and change will not come easily.
Please keep in mind that there is a big difference between Spirituality and Religion. Religion is more about people and meeting the needs of people, like a big exclusive club with thousands of special rules. Spirituality is all about you and your personal connection to God, or to your beliefs and values. For example, the Catholic church has thousands and thousands of rules that have no direct link to the teachings of Jesus Christ, such as Birth Control. A church makes up many rules to supposedly help guide on the best path to unity with god. There are people in organized crime who murder, steal, feed drugs to kids, engage in sexual slavery, etc, who go to church on a regular basis and give to charity. It is spirituality that matters on Judgment Day, not religion. It is your capacity to love and be compassionate, and to choose to be a good person as best you can that matters, not your religion.
That said, religion can offer many people the comforts of ritual, ceremony, routine, being a part of a group of people, and being told what to do and what no to do. But BEWARE, to join God, it takes a great deal more than obeying rules, doing good deeds and going to church, it requires a universal love for your fellow mankind, and a giving, compassionate and forgiving heart.
If I could not be a priest, I still wanted to help people. When I went into the Academy, I had a plan and a goal to graduate, go to sea, save and invest every penny I could, then retire in 10 years and devote my life to volunteer work. Well, it actually took almost 14 years, due to a husband who was an alcoholic, drug addict, and spendaholic. I retired for life at age 34, coming home from the sea for good. I went directly into volunteer work to care for those dying of AIDS, working in the Soup Kitchen, doing home care and then Primary daily care until each died. The University of Washington heard about my volunteer counseling on the Sexual Minority Community and invited me to their 'Peer Counseling' program for free, so that is how I became an official 'Volunteer Peer Counselor.' I have been doing full-time volunteer work going on some 26 years.
The true Gospels of Jesus are the original Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke & John write in Coptic Greek. These Gospels, as well as the Letters Of Paul, were incorrectly translated into Latin and then into the modern languages. This created the LIE that Homosexuality isa sin. Homosexuality is NOT A SIN in the words of the Apostles Matthew, Mark, Luke & John, the eyewitnesses to words of Jesus Christ, and homosexuality is NOT A SIN in the original words of Paul.
Man created religion. Therefore, I became a deist. It's not a religion, and deists believe in God. I'm so happy I found a word for non-religious god-believing people. ^^ The whole point of religion was to teach people about HIM until man decided to make it into a drama. I'm all supportive about same-sex monogamous marriage!
By the way, I believe in Christ too. He loves us all equally. He can never get mad at us for our sin. We're all born into it and we can be risen from it.
It is great to hear from open-minded people like you.
I was wondering if you have any suggestions for making the website easier to read? For example, this page is huge (all words, no pictures): [link] Granted, it is a complicated subject, but I don't want the website to confuse/frustrate people because of the complexity of the subject. I will appreciate any words of wisdom. On a side note, I don't expect anyone to actually read through all of it (I figure that people will pick and choose what pages they are interested in). Thanks in advance!
Did you also see the other two papers that go with this one?
- New Testament + Homosexuality [link]
Old Testament + Homosexuality [link]
SODOM DESTROYED ON 6-29-3129BC [link]
I feel I should warn you. I get attacked regularly, sometimes viciously, by Christians, for my above papers. Most are so bad that I hide them from view. If you allow comments on your page, or supply an email address, you will get attacked, along with personal attacks on your character, being told you will burn in hell, are Satan’s child, etc. Just so you know.
Usually they have not even read any of the papers they are screaming about and are outraged that I would dare to write about Homosexuality and the Bible, or claim translation problems and accuse me of daring to question the word of God. My answer to them is that I do not question the word of God or Jesus, I question the words of Translators who had their own hidden agendas. I say we must go back as far as possible to original scriptures, which in the case of the New Testament, is in Coptic Greek.
Translation is extremely difficult after 2,000 years. A language must be translated in context of the culture at the time of the writing. Also, you must use the actual language of the time. There was language drift in Coptic Greek, just as in all languages. There was no word for same-sex sex or homosexual sex in the Coptic Greek language. Paul did not even write, so he dictated to a scribe who wrote in Coptic Greek.
To give you a very small example of translation drift just in the last few decades, Paul used the phrase, “Faith, Hope and Charity.” The primary definition of the word ‘Charity’ meant: Universal Love For Your Fellow Mankind. But over time, the vernacular of the word ‘Charity’ came to mean: The voluntary giving of help to people in need. Many of the latest translations of the Bible, like the New American Bible, translated Paul’s phrase, “Faith, Hope and Charity” into ““Faith, Hope and Love.”
Something big is lost in this translation, to go from “Universal Love For Your Fellow Mankind” to “Love.” Imagine the problems of jumping over 2,000 years from an ancient language, where most of the cultural context is lost, and only very well studies Scholars in Greek language and culture can do an effective translation. But instead, it is theologians who are less educated in both ancient Coptic Greek and the Ancient Coptic Greek culture and the ancient culture of Judea.
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I wrote my papers with one thing in mind. I wanted to be a missionary Priest, but could not reconcile my Faith with my Homosexuality, and there was no help at all back then. I struggles with self-hate and internalized homophobia. I set out to help LGBTQ people be able to reconcile their faith with their homosexuality, as well as to help their parents and other loved reconcile their Faith with the homosexual nature of their loved one.
I also wanted my papers to act as a REFERENCE for when LGBTQ people are attacked by Christians or Jews with Biblical passages, with hot Indexes and Table of contents to quickly find passages and provide arguments against those using biblical passages as a weapon against them, or to help convince parents and loved ones.
It was never my intent to convince Conservative Christians to accept homosexuals, because they are too blinded by hate and a desire to discriminate against others, especially when they believe they have God’s permission to discriminate and abuse homosexuals.
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To answer your questions, first you must decide who your intended audience is. If you want to include a young audience, then your layout is not ideal for that but I think it is easily adapted to a younger audience.
First, I know it is a bit of work, but on your first page, a linked Index of Biblical passages, linked to where you cover said passages, would turn your site into a handy reference guide for people looking for help on a specific passage or two. For example, a person could scan down the index to find Leviticus 18:22, click on it, and be taken to where you discuss that passage.
I think that your pages are well laid-out for Biblical researchers and those interested in an in-depth study, but they are not laid-out well for a younger audience. I have found in my years of working with youth (ages 12 to 25) that most young people today are completely put-off by large blocks of text. If I were to do my papers over, I would do them differently. I wrote them years ago.
However, your pages could very easily be adapted to please both youth people and those wanting a deeper look at the subject. You could give a relatively short summary in each column, followed by a link to another page offering the full details for those who want the all of the details and references. I am suggesting separate pages, because if you put both the summaries and details on a single page, many people would look at a page with a ton of text and just hit the back button or close the window/tab. If they see a smaller amount of text, they are more likely to read it, and if they are then captivated or interested in more detail, they can click on the link and get it.
In other words, you might consider inserting a summary page before the detail & reference page, with a well-labeled link to further deals and references. this should appeal to a wider audience.
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I give both Judaic Rabbinic and Orthodox Christian views of Sodom & Gomorrah in my paper SODOM DESTROYED ON 6-29-3129BC [link] which is worth checking out.
It is important to note that Homosexuality was never interpreted into Sodom and Gomorrah until the 11th century by the Italian ascetic Peter Damian. In other words, Christianity never saw Sodom & Gomorrah linked to Homosexuality, for over 1,000 years after the birth of Christ. I give the details of this translation in the above linked paper, under, “ORTHODOX CHRISTIAN VIEW.”
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Frankly, my paper on the New Testament needs a little bit of updating, but I simply do not have the time to do it now. For example, Biblical Archeologists have found that the place where Jesus was raised in Judea was very urban, a city that was relatively densely populated with Roman Citizens and Garrisons. Joseph, was a carpenter, which was like an upper-middle-class trade in those times, and it is very likely that he worked a lot for the romans (where the money was).
This is significant because it means that it was extremely likely that Jesus would have known about ‘Same-Sex Sex’ or homosexual sex in his lifetime of ~34 years. The Romans openly practiced ‘Same-Sex Sex’ as part of their normal sexuality. They Greeks and Romans had no word for ‘Same-Sex Sex’ or homosexuality in their language, because it was considered as just being one aspect of sexuality.
If you then consider that Jesus never once said a single word against ‘Same-Sex Sex’ or homosexuality, as witnessed by Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, his omission speaks volumes. It is the same with God’s only direct message to us (not via men) in the Ten Commandments, has no mention of ‘Same-Sex Sex’ or homosexuality.
Are you aware of the change in the Catholic Catechism concerning homosexuality? The Catholic church’s official stand on homosexuality is that Homosexuality itself is not a sin. But a much more significant change is that the Catholic Church has conceded that people are BORN homosexual. More churches are doing this because of the overwhelming science. We even know much of the mechanism.
Normally you would think that God never makes a mistake, therefore homosexual sex, within the confines of a gay Marriage (long-term loving and committed relationship), would not be a sin. Unfortunately, the church still sees Homosexual sex, even in the confines of a loving long-term relationship (marriage), as a sin. They feel that God gave homosexual people the burden of living all their lives in celibacy as a test of their faith.
Reference: You can Read or Download the Catholic Church's Catechism on Homosexuality: Ministry to Persons with a Homosexual Inclination [link] from the 2006 American Conference of Catholic Bishops:
The church acknowledges that people are born Homosexual and that Homosexuality itself is not a sin.
"Homosexual Inclination Is Not Itself a Sin
While the Church teaches that homosexual acts are immoral, she does distinguish between engaging in homosexual acts and having a homosexual inclination. While the former is always objectively sinful, the latter is not. To the extent that a homosexual tendency or inclination is not subject to one’s free will, one is not morally culpable for that tendency. Although one would be morally culpable if one were voluntarily to entertain homosexual temptations or to choose to act on them, simply having the tendency is not a sin. Consequently, the Church does not teach that the experience of homosexual attraction is in itself sinful."
"The Church teaches that persons with a homosexual inclination 'must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity.' We recognize that these persons have been, and often continue to be, objects of scorn, hatred, and even violence in some sectors of our society. Sometimes this hatred is manifested clearly; other times, it is masked and gives rise to more disguised forms of hatred. 'It is deplorable that homosexual persons have been and are the object of violent malice in speech or in action. Such treatment deserves condemnation from the Church’s pastors wherever it occurs.'
Those who would minister in the name of the Church must in no way contribute to such injustice. They should prayerfully examine their own hearts in order to discern any thoughts or feelings that might stand in need of purification. Those who minister are also called to growth in holiness. In fact, the work of spreading the Good News involves an ever-increasing love for those to whom one is ministering by calling them to the truth of Jesus Christ."
I hope this is of some help,
I would like to ask if you actually read this deviation? Where did god say he hates Homosexuals or same-sex sex? The only actual words of God were carved into the Ten Commandments, and there is no mention of it there. Jesus Christ never once said a single negative word about homosexuality or same-sex sex. In the Old Testament you have a lot of old stories with men claiming to speak for God, but men are fallible. I would suggest that you rely on God’s words and the words of Jesus Christ, not the words of man.
Does God make Mistakes? The Catholic Church and SOM Protestant Churches have already admitted that people are born homosexual. In fact, the Catholic church has changed its official Catechism to say that homosexuals are born homosexual. The science proving that is overwhelming and I can even tell you the mechanism of how you were born homosexual, and the genetic link for a propensity towards mothers giving birth to homosexual children, and why.
Does God make Mistakes? It is wrong of you to suggest that God has made a mistake. It is obviously part of God’s plan and has been for all of recorded human history. The Catholic church tries to get around this by saying that God made you Homosexual as a way of testing your faith, and that you must live a celibate life.
Jesus Christ never once said anything negative about homosexuality or same-sex sex, not anywhere in Matthew, Mark, Luke or John. There is NO WORD in Coptic Greek for Homosexual or same-sex sex. Over 1,000 years after the death of Jesus, Christian translators took a word-pair in Greek and decided it meant homosexual sex. Yet that same word-pair is used elsewhere in the bible without any such meaning. Have you read New Testament & Homosexuality [link]? I have shown that the translators have mistranslated Paul, in Corinthians and Romans. We know a lot more about Coptic Greek now than we did back then, especially in cultural and historical context.
Jesus would have know about same-sex sex because he was born and raised in Judea, in an urban setting heavily populated by Roman citizens and Roman Garrisons (as shown now by the archeological record). Judea was part of the Roman Empire, and romans openly practiced same-sex sex. Jesus was not executed until he was around 34 (33 to 36) years old, plus Hebrews obviously had some same-sex sex going on as well. Yet Jesus chose to not speak of it, to not condemn homosexuality.
You and others are saying that the Christians in the first 1,000 years after Christ died were wrong, while the bigots of the second millennia somehow got it right?
God never said anything negative about Homosexuality in the Ten Commandments. The story of Sodom & Gomorrah were never seen as having anything to do with homosexuality for over 1,000 years until the Italian ascetic Peter Damian interpreted it that way in the 11th century. The Jewish faith has NEVER interpreted it that way. The Vast majority of Biblical Archeologists also agree the story of Sodom had nothing to do with homosexuality.
The entire population of Sodom (men, women & children) called out to Lot and said, “Where are the men which came in to thee this night? Bring them out unto us, that we may KNOW them.” (Genesis 19:5) Orthodox Christians interpret, "KNOW them," to mean that the sodomites wanted to have homosexual sex with the two male Angels visiting Lot, including the women and children.
While the Hebrew word for KNOW appears over 900 times in the Hebrew Scriptures, only 1% of those references is it clearly used as a euphemism for realizing sexual intimacy. Instead, the demand to KNOW, should be interpreted as demanding the right to interrogate the strangers. The sins of Sodom & Gomorrah were many, but mostly based in INHOSPITALITY & GENERAL WICKEDNESS.
I feel sad that you are unable to reconcile your faith with your inborn homosexual nature. It will torture you all your life until you accept that neither God nor Jesus ever had a bad word to say about homosexuality, and until you look at the true translations of scripture. I feel terrible about your suffering and wish I could help, but this is a journey only you can take.
Homosexuality is set in the brain structures and it is unchangeable. Thinking otherwise is delusional. A Gay man can have sex with a woman, and many have hidden their homosexuality this way, but there is no desire for sex with a woman, the sex is unfulfilling, and it is unsustainable over time, leaving the poor woman without any or very little sexual intimacy in her life, while the man sneaks off to have sex with men.
Typically, so called conversions from homosexual to heterosexual turn out to be Bisexual people who can choose to live as a straight person and be happy that way. There are no documented cases of a successful conversion from Homosexual to Straight that lasted. It ends in either suicide or going back to living as a homosexual, with a lot of suffering along the way to get back to who they really are. There was a Gay man who marry a Lesbian woman and they claimed to have sex together and to converted straight, but then they later came forward to tell the truth that this was a lie. They wanted desperately to be straight, but it is impossible.
I do wish you the best and hope that you will find a measure of happiness in your life.
I find it interesting that you refuse to believe in the original scriptures, written by the Apostles and others in the time soon after the death of Christ. Instead you cling to the bigoted translations of European men over a thousand years after Christ died. In doing so, you reject the actual words of Christ, as relayed to us by his Apostles and Paul, in Coptic Greek.
I was born Autistic, just as I was born Gay. I see both as gifts from God. Some see Autism as a curse. It has given me big challenges in life and has made me very good at problem solving, both of which helped me a lot in life. Both Autism and being Gay resulted in me suffering some in life, but I do not see that as a bad thing, for suffering can teach us much and make us stronger. Much of that suffering was at the hands of Christians, both the Autism and the Homosexuality.
Christianity teaches that ANY SEX is a sin if it is done outside of a marriage. All Unitarian churches and United Church of Christ churches do Gay Marriages, as well as the MCC Churches. Many Methodist and Lutheran churches are now doing Gay Marriages. These churches all teach that homosexual sex, within the confines of a Gay Marriage or long-term committed relationship. Are you saying you know better than many of the Christian churches in the world, and their elders and theologians?
I am sure you have read Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, and I would ask you if the Jesus they wrote about would condemn you for the way you were born, for your homosexual nature? Look at the teachings of Christ to see the way. Does Jesus teach homophobia, hatred, discrimination and bigotry against homosexuals?
I was raised in a very strict traditional Catholic Family. I was an altar boy and wanted to be a Priest. I was getting extra training in Franciscan Theology. Even when I knew I was Gay, I was innocent enough not to understand it would be a problem, until our Priest told us altar boys that when a boy is attracted to another boy, he is an abomination in the eyes of God, doomed to burn for eternity in the everlasting fires of Gahanna. It shattered me and I tried to kill myself at age 13. A man grabbed my feet as I was going over.
Today, right now in America, Half (50%) of ALL BOYS who attempt or succeed in killing themselves, are Gay or Bisexual, due to Christian hatred and bigotry. EVERY YEAR in America, about 640,000 GBLT Kids, as young as 12 years old, go onto the street, and 39% of those were thrown out of their homes after “Coming Out” or discovery of their homosexuality or bisexuality, because of conflicts with moral and religious values. The vast majority of those parents are Christians.
I wrote the following papers to help GLBTQ youth and adults to reconcile their Christian or Judaic Faith with their homosexual nature:
- New Testament + Homosexuality [link]
Old Testament + Homosexuality [link]
SODOM DESTROYED ON 6-29-3129BC [link]
I sporadically get attacked with vile hatred here on DA, by Christians. Sometimes Christians create a DA account solely to attack me. You go their DA page and nothing is there at all. I used to try to talk to them, but quickly found that all I get is a continuous stream of vile hatred from them. Now I simply block them and hide the comments, or have DA remove them if they are particularly vile. It is interesting how hatred and Christianity seem to go together for so many. In America, Christianity, denying food and services for the poor and owning guns all go together for some reason.
The Catholic church commissioned a survey on how Christians feel about Torture in America, and this is what they found:
- 72% of Catholics Approve of Torture
65% of White Protestants & Evangelicals Approve of Torture
63% of the Total American Public Approves of Torture
51% of Seculars Approve of Torture
None of this is anything like what Jesus Christ teaches.
- MATTHEW 22 [THE TWO GREAT COMMANDMENTS]
36 "Teacher, 21 which commandment in the law is the greatest?"
37 He said to him, 22 "You shall love the Lord, your God, with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.
38 This is the greatest and the first commandment.
39 The second is like it: 23 You shall love your neighbor as yourself.
40 24 The whole law and the prophets depend on these two commandments.”
This is all you need to guide you through life. Christians in general, from my observation, loose track of this and do not even try to live Christ-like. You could go through life and never commit a sin and give to charity, and not go to Heaven. God requires that you love both him and your fellow mankind. Hating homosexuals, judging them, condemning them, discriminating against them, saying hateful things to them, NONE of this is conducive to the teachings of Jesus Christ.
Why do so many Christians ignore the TWo GREAT COMMANDMENTS? They look for justification for their hate elsewhere in the Bible. You can find justification for genocide in the Bible if you want, as Adolph Hitler did and Pope Innocent III did (genocide of the Cathari), killing (including burning at the stake), approximately 40,000 children, women and men, all in the name of God.
You can read >b>The Torture Of Homosexuals - 1950s to 1980s [link]</b> to see how homosexuals were tortured by Christians all over the world, in the name of God.
I have a computer program that allows me to compare passages in the Bible between over 100 English translations of the Bible. There are significant differences between the bibles. Some seem simple, but are not. For example, in Paul’s “Faith, Hope and Charity,” found in the older translations, the word charity used to mean “Universal Love for your fellow Mankind.” This is still listed as one of the meanings of ‘Charity’ in most dictionaries, but in the current vernacular, it has come to mean giving to those in need. Therefore, some translations changed the word’Charity’ to ‘Love,” to say, “Faith, Hope and Love.” But the single word ‘Love’ does not give the true meaning as translated from Coptic Greek, which was closer to ‘Universal Love for your fellow mankind.” This change of one single word changed the fundamental meaning of something in the bible.
Anyway, it is not for me to try to change your mind on anything. The information I give is for the open-minded who want the truth about what the Bible really says abut homosexual sex. If it is not helpful to you, I’m sorry about that. Perhaps others can help you later.
Your Homosexual nature is God’s gift to you.
Pray to God for support and go seekmcommunity to help you in your struggle. You are not alone in this world.