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Old Testament + Homosexuality by inspiredcreativity Old Testament + Homosexuality by inspiredcreativity

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Please also see my deviation on [link] (The New Testament + Homosexuality).


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God Does NOT Condemn You For Your Homosexuality, Or For The Sexual Fulfillment Of Your Homosexual Love—God Welcomes You.

I have added a HOT-LINKED Table of Contents and much more Information and References. I have also included a HOT-LINKED Index of the Biblical References used throughout the document.

This is an in-depth look at how Jesus and the early Christian Church accepted Same-Sex Loving Relationships and Same-Sex Sex within the context of a committed relationship.

The Old Testament is a Christian version of events, which is different from the TORA of the Jewish Faith. Of the main branches of the Jewish Faith, only one is against Homosexuality, with Reform Judaism, Reconstructionist Judaism, and Conservative Judaism all being fine with Homosexuality.

I hope that his helps some of you reconcile your Christian Faith with your Homosexuality or Bisexuality. For others it will act as a handy guide to COUNTER Homophobic Christians who use Scriptures as a weapon against us.

GAY FRIENDLY CHURCHES NEAR YOU
Churches that specifically teach that Homosexual Sex in a Monogynous Homosexual relationship is NOT A SIN:

[link] (METROPOLITAN COMMUNITY CHURCHES [MCC]) are GAY CHURCHES and they are located all over the world. [link] (Find One Near You.)

[link] (The UNITARIAN UNIVERSALIST Church)
[link] (THE UNITED CHURCH OF CHRIST [UCC])
[link](The UNITED CHURCH OF CANADA)
There are a small number of LUTHERAN CHURCHES that see homosexual sex in committed relationships as a non-sin, but most see it as sin.

LUTHERAN CHURCHES that see homosexual sex in committed relationships as a non-sin, but most see it as sin.


WARNING: There are many so called "Gay Friendly" Christian and Catholic Churches around who invite you in, then preach to you that you live in Sin.
________________________________________

In this paper, I often present multiple approaches and argument for passage in question. For example, translators have use the word Homosexual when no such word even existed when the scriptures were written. Translators of many modern printings have inserted words that are designed to inflame hatred.

Despite new correct translations, Bible publishers are under strong economic pressures to turn a profit. If a translation of lets say Leviticus 18:22 were included that did not generally condemn at least male homosexual behavior, their sales would drop precipitously. They are unlikely to deviate from traditional interpretations, unless they were preparing a translation specifically for Christian and Jewish liberals.

WORDS CAN KILL GBLT KIDS. There are Christians whose words drive GBLT CHILDREN TO THEIR DEATHS IN VERY LARGE NUMBERS. It may seem that the Christian Fundamentalists are harmless, but the poison and lies they spread do great, great harm. Since many of these Fundamentalist Christians believe that their Bigotry and Discrimination is Justified by the Bible, they could care less if they drive children to suicide. After all they are doing "God's Work."

It is my hope that these two papers on the Bible and Homosexuality, will help to educate kids about the truth and save lives.

PLEASE NOTE: I wrote this paper to help people, not to attract Christian BIGOTS, generate religious arguments, debate or hate attacks. This is not the proper Forum for that. If you do not agree with this paper that is your right, as it is your right to state that. However, I will not engage in counter arguments because the only thing homosexuals ever hear are the constant litany of lies of Conservative Fundamentalist Christians. No more such is needed here. Any attacking or Hate-based comments will be hidden.

I am a Humanist centered in COMPASSION. I actively choose to be a good person out of my own DESIRE, not from the threat of a Hell, the promise of a Heaven, nor belief in Gods. I am a Spiritual man in my own way. I have studied Christian Theology over the years, as well as comparative theology.

Matthew Barry ©2009, 2010, 2011, 2012
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:iconflower2563:
flower2563 Featured By Owner 14 hours ago  Hobbyist
Old testament is invalid...
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:iconinspiredcreativity:
inspiredcreativity Featured By Owner 5 hours ago  Professional Digital Artist
Personally, I agree.  It is a storybook with some historical facts thrown in.  However, some people take it very seriously, believing every single word as truth.  The thing is, if people really claim to believe every word, what about the treatment of women as slaves, string people to death for telling a lie, and on and on with the ridiculous bloodthirsty punishments for small things, like wearing wool and cotton at the same time.  But then Paul, of the New Testament also did not like women and spoke of how they were to be subservient to men, forbidden to teach men, etc.

In early Christianity, the Gnostics had women priests and treated women a lot more equal. Then Roman Emperor Constantine came to power and decided he needed to unite his fractured empire of factions worshiping many different pagan gods, under one religion.  The Western Christian church was chosen because it had a hierarchal power structure Pope (emperor), bishops, etc, that was similar to the roman system.  The Western Christian church was also Patriarchal (completely dominated and controlled by men), as was the roman system, and Christianity approved of slavery and preached fr slaves to be good slaves.

Emperor Constantine called for what is know as the 'First Counsel of Nicea' and ordered all Christian bishops to attend.  The Gnostics were more in the Eastern empire, far away, and there were fewer of them, since they did not have a hierarchal system like the Western Church.  After the counsel, the Gnostics lost and were condemned as heretical, then all hunted down and murdered, men women and children, all hunted across the empire, and all of their writings burned, except for the set found run recent times near the Dead Sea.  And thus there were no more female priests., and women of faith were relegated to being "Brides of Christ" or Nuns, who have no official power or say in the church at all.

Christianity, Islam and Judaism all have a long history of blood and atrocities against humanity. But to be fair, it is not the teachings at fault, it is the human beings who use teachings as an excuse to commit atrocities against their fellow mankind.

Pope Innocent III proclaimed he had a vision from God that the Cathari were heretic and declared Holy War against them, killing and burning at the stake approximately 40,000 children, women and men, all in the name of God. There may have been more corrupt Popes than decent ones in the history of the Catholic church.  When 
'The Little Ice Age' hit Europe, causing starvation and hardship, including the plague, attendance and donations to the church dropped in a big way. The Pope declared that witches were to blame and they set up a system to systematically murder thoudanss upon thousands of women and men (mostly women) on trumped up bogus charges of Witchcraft, all to generate panic and fear and drive people back into the church to give more money.  The same thing was done with homosexuals around AD1100. Any atrocity can be justified, as long as you do it in the name of a God.

Churches (organized religion) are more like fancy clubs with tons of rules, many of which have nothing to do with the teachings of Jesus, or Mohammed, etc. Spirituality is all about your connection to your God and/or beliefs. Religion is a group affair and spirituality is an individual thing.  Religion is corrupted by mankind. How many Christians have you ever know who even try to live Christ-like? 

Jesus, based on his teachings and life in Matthew. Mark, Luke and John, would condemn bigotry against blacks, or homosexuals, or anyone else, let alone condone discrimination, torture, beatings and murder of those Christian hate. As he said, let the first without sin cast the first stone (against a woman guilty of adultery).  Christianity stood in favor of slavery and defended it, claiming black people were not even human. Christian churches actually participated in the torture of homosexuals all the way into the 1980s., and before that, it also included church sanctioned imprisonment, murders, torture and burning homosexuals at the stake.  The Christian churches invented many methods of human torture, all in the name of god.

No, I am not attacking the teachings of Jesus, but I do attack the way people practice their faith, and the harm they do around the world in the process.  a good example is how Christianity fought Condom programs and family planning programs in Africa, as the AIDS crisis took off, even after millions had died.  Back when the crisis could have been contained, Christianity fought with ever bit of their power to prevent the spread of AIDS, so the blood of millions is on there hands. Of course the churches washed their hands of the blood, like Pontious Pilot, claiming it was the sin of sex that killed them all, yet most victims were innocent spouses., which then passed to their children.

Sorry, I probably said a lot more than you wanted to hear.
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:iconadventure-cat:
Adventure-Cat Featured By Owner Jan 23, 2016  Hobbyist Writer
False doctrine is especially mentioned by the Lord, telling people its ok to sin by sugar coating half truths and lies, will have indescribable consequences!  www.openbible.info/topics/liar

Please reconsider your post, this affects you as much as the people its serving to kill.  www.openbible.info/topics/homo…
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:iconinspiredcreativity:
inspiredcreativity Featured By Owner Jan 24, 2016  Professional Digital Artist
I get that you are homophobic, but it is not for you to try to force you bigoted view onto me or anyone else.  I have no problem with you believing what you want to believe, just don't try to spread your hate around.  People like you cause thousands of children to kill themselves each year, kids like these: The Faces of Teen Suicide by inspiredcreativity The Faces of Teen Suicide.  People like you tell kids that the way god made them is wrong.  Science has proven that people are born homosexual and even the Catholic Church has officially stated this in its Catechism. The brains of homosexuals are different from the brains of heterosexual.  You cannot change how you were born.  God does not make mistakes, and God Amadeus just as he intended.
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:iconadventure-cat:
Adventure-Cat Featured By Owner Jan 24, 2016  Hobbyist Writer
Phobe-slinging....satan is truly a devious enemy!

What I believe isnt the issue here, its your position of trying to turn people away from the Lord by contributing to the apostacy, that is the issue. The Father made us male and female, no matter how you try and spin it, women where made for men and men for women (see Genesis 2), Ive had this discussion with people before who even tried to legitimize sodomy and oral abominations...the answer is the same whether your speaking biblically or scientifically, opposite genders where made to be mates, otherwise there would only be one gender and no need for a mate to reproduce. Love and lust are two very different things despite the hippie nonsense from the 60s. We are supposed to love one another, soul mates are paired for life (be fruitful and multiply) Same genders are designed for that, its simple logic! Also look up Bio-Genesis.

The Catholic church has been corrupted from the start, full of idolatry, fornication and teaching false doctrines filled with half truths to seduce like Satan did too Eve. We where warned about them in the book of Romans chapter 1. Even the part about them turning away from the Lord and he left them to burn in their lusts for things they where not meant to do...what ever the world can hit with, it will never be like what is waiting for them in hell. 

1 Corinthians 6:9-10; 9 Do you not know that the unjust will not inherit God's kingdom? Do not be deceived: no sexually immoral people, idolaters, adulterers, male prostitutes, homosexuals, 10 thieves, greedy people, drunkards, revilers, or swindlers will inherit God's kingdom.
 1 Timothy 1:10, and Jude 1:7

...and the only thing different about their brains is the rubbish the world fills peoples minds with. There is a lot of blood on Satans hands for sure, did you not know that in the end times people would no longer listen to sound doctrine, and there would be an anti-Christian movement? But even though my Christian brethren died daily, just for being faithful to the Lord, at the hands of ISIS and Obamas missles, we know that these bodies are temporary and there will be reward for us who overcome the madness this final generation has inflicted upon itself.  If you truly love those around you, you would help them to be repent and not give into sin!  Let me challenge you with a piece: adventure-cat.deviantart.com/a…
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:iconinspiredcreativity:
inspiredcreativity Featured By Owner Jan 25, 2016  Professional Digital Artist
Actually, the purpose of my series of writings on the Bible and Homosexuality, it to help homosexual Christians reconcile their faith with their homosexuality, because many end up rejecting Christianity or religion all together, due to the hate and bigotry they receive from Christians.  As I pointed out before, many Christian churches support what I say, and a number of them even perform Gay marriages, such as the Episcopalian church.  

In your quote of Corinthians, homosexuals are not mentioned.  It is you who have decided to label homosexuality as 'sexually immoral.'

Jesus Christ never once said or even hinted that he felt that homosexuality was sin or that homosexual sex was a sin.

People like you deny science and fact when it runs against your dogma. This is ignorance by choice.

Finally, as I have told others who want to debate the bible and homosexuality wth me, I used to do this regularly, but I no longer have the time.  All of my available time is spent on my volunteer counseling to youth in crisis.  In many times I have engaged in this debate, no minds are changed or influences, and the Fundamentalist Christian usually resorts to throwing out insults, inflammatory language and derogatory/bigoted statements. 

In short, it is waste of precious time I just don't have to spare.  I am sure you can find many others to debate with.  Therefore, kindly to not comment to me again.  It will lead to nothing good for either of us.
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:iconadventure-cat:
Adventure-Cat Featured By Owner Jan 25, 2016  Hobbyist Writer
Your ether misinformed or telling falsehoods ( www.biblegateway.com/passage/?… ) Look here too -> ( www.companionbiblecondensed.co… ) Even the New Testament tells us Jesus was there from the beginning, he was the Word of God ( www.biblegateway.com/passage/?… ) Everything that the Lord spoke was with the Word, and it was done or made law. The entire bible is inspired by and is the Word of God, Jesus said he taught his disciples everything he was given, and its al been the same from the beginning.

As for the churches that are willing to allow homosexuality, they arent of God they in fact are rebelling against him in a very notable way! There is an outcry of the soul when such sins are done, ones that reach up into heaven like in Sodam and Gamorah ( I gave you a link to the companion bible too, check it out on this as well. It has literal translations, the Strong's Exhaustive Concordance is available online too for further in-depth study.)  ...and yes, homosexuality is also one of many immoralities God has been enraged over, his designs arent supposed to be changed or misused, we take too much upon ourselves thinking what we have is our own. What we have, all we have been given was by him for his delight, if you do things the Creator hates, you are not pleasing to him and will have no part in the world to come...people have to realize what and who we are dealing with, and let go of that self centered (Me myself and I attitude, this is about our Lord not them, humility...letting go of worldly lusts and being reborn into that new creature is the goal. Its not about feelings, because you cant take your body with you anymore then you can your money, car, kids, spouse or whatever you covet...the Lord decides. 

Your Finally comment: I pray you dont seek to corrupt the youth further, if your intention is to tell them it is ok to be sexually immoral in any fashion.  I realize it would be a waste of time to speak to someone who has refused to see, if people are determined to believe a lie or be removed from the truth the Lord will even help build that barrier between the two of you, so you are further removed from him and can be unleashed in your ways. We are to hate the sin and love the sinner, the Lord will deal with these things as he deems fit, my purpose is to spread the good news; that those who accept Christ as their lord and savior and follow all he has commanded us (hear his voice) will be given a crown of life. (Broad is the way that leads to destruction, but narrow is the one that leads to life)

Any who may read this, I invite you to also see where I am coming from, ( adventure-cat.deviantart.com/g… ) weight both carefully and decide. Because as the OP said, once people are set in their ways, neither will bend. So to be fair to the readers, weight both and pray to the Lord that the truth find you in this matter. 
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:iconinspiredcreativity:
inspiredcreativity Featured By Owner Jan 26, 2016  Professional Digital Artist
I had hoped that you would honor my request to stop commenting.  I have decided to answer this, because you were so far off the mark that it begged to be corrected.  However, if you continue to send me comments, I will consider it harassment under DA rules and take action accordingly.  Separate from you being banned, I have the option of hiding any or all of your comments, if I find it necessary.

Your links are NOT to the words of Jesus. The only biblical writers who were eye-witnesses to the words of Jesus Christ were the Apostles Matthew, Mark, Luke and John.  Paul, who never met Jesus or heard Jesus talk, came afterwards.  In fact, Paul and Peter were in theological conflict.  Have your read the New Testament yourself?  Only the Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John are witnesses to Jesus Christ.

Therefore, when I said that Jesus Christ NEVER once even hinted at homosexuality being a sin or bad in any way, I was absolutely correct.  Carefully read Matthew, Mark, Luke and John and you will see this for yourself.  I highly recommend that if you want to be a good Christian that you follow the teachings of Jesus Christ first, before all other scriptures, and also look at the overall tone and messages the words of Jesus Christ, separate from the writings of others, such as Paul, who never met Jesus or listened to the words Jesus.  Pay especially close attention to:

MATTHEW 22

36 "Teacher, 21 which commandment in the law is the greatest?"

37 He said to him, 22 "You shall love the Lord, your God, with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.

38 This is the greatest and the first commandment.

39 The second is like it: 23 You shall love your neighbor as yourself.

40 24 The whole law and the prophets depend on these two commandments."

Jesus Christ says that ALL of the law of the Old Testament and New Testament DEPEND on those TWO GREAT COMMANDMENTS.  Jesus says that the Old Testament must be interpreted using these two great commandments. 

Christians spent over a thousand years murdering, imprisoning, torturing, beating and discriminating against homosexuals, all in the name of Jesus Christ.  This was even done to children all the way into the 1980s.  Christians believed that you could change homosexuals to heterosexuals through torture, by attaching electrodes to the testicles, penis, arms, legs and torso, then electrocuting them to the point of burning the flesh and leaving permanent scars.  It is called 'Aversion therapy' and the idea ism show the boys and men nude male photographs and homosexual photos and videos (depending on the era), while electrocuting them.  It has never worked.   All claims it works have been proved false.  Some Christians (you?) believe you can commit any atrocity, as long as you do it the name of God or Jesus. Both the Catholic and Protestant churches have histories paved in blood and horrible atrocities against humanity, all done in the name of God.    

The way you talk does not sound like someone following the teachings of Jesus Christ.  I highly suggest reading Jesus Christ's words in his:
    From the Sermon on the Mount, the New Testament, Matthew 5 NAB: New Law of Retaliation.
    Jesus says:
    38 "You have heard that it was said, 'An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.'
    39 But I say to you, offer no resistance to one who is evil. When someone strikes you on your right cheek, turn the other one to him as well.
    40 If anyone wants to go to law with you over your tunic, hand him your cloak as well.
    41 Should anyone press you into service for one mile, go with him for two miles.
    42 Give to the one who asks of you, and do not turn your back on one who wants to borrow.
    43 "You have heard that it was said, 'You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.'
    44 But I say to you, love your enemies, and pray for those who persecute you,
    45 that you may be children of your heavenly Father, for he makes his sun rise on the bad and the good, and causes rain to fall on the just and the unjust.
    46 For if you love those who love you, what recompense will you have? Do not the tax collectors do the same?
    47 And if you greet your brothers only, what is unusual about that? Do not the pagans do the same? 48 So be perfect, just as your heavenly Father is perfect.

    In the Sermon on the Plain, the New Testament, Luke 6:
    Love of One's Enemies.
    Jesus says:
    27 "But to you who hear I say, love your enemies, do good to those who hate you,
    28 bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you.
    29 To the person who strikes you on one cheek, offer the other one as well, and from the person who takes your cloak, do not withhold even your tunic.
    30 Give to everyone who asks of you, and from the one who takes what is yours do not demand it back.
    31 Do to others as you would have them do to you.
    32 For if you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners love those who love them.
    33 And if you do good to those who do good to you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners do the same.
    34 If you lend money to those from whom you expect repayment, what credit is that to you? Even sinners lend to sinners, and get back the same amount.
    35 But rather, love your enemies and do good to them, and lend expecting nothing back; then your reward will be great and you will be children of the Most High, for he himself is kind to the ungrateful and the wicked.
    36 Be merciful, just as (also) your Father is merciful.
    37 "Stop judging and you will not be judged. Stop condemning and you will not be condemned. Forgive and you will be forgiven.
    38 Give and gifts will be given to you; a good measure, packed together, shaken down, and overflowing, will be poured into your lap. For the measure with which you measure will in return be measured out to you."
    39 And he told them a parable, "Can a blind person guide a blind person? Will not both fall into a pit?
    40 No disciple is superior to the teacher; but when fully trained, every disciple will be like his teacher.
    41 Why do you notice the splinter in your brother's eye, but do not perceive the wooden beam in your own?
    42 How can you say to your brother, 'Brother, let me remove that splinter in your eye,' when you do not even notice the wooden beam in your own eye? You hypocrite! Remove the wooden beam from your eye first; then you will see clearly to remove the splinter in your brother's eye.
    43 "A good tree does not bear rotten fruit, nor does a rotten tree bear good fruit.
    44 For every tree is known by its own fruit. For people do not pick figs from thornbushes, nor do they gather grapes from brambles.
    45 A good person out of the store of goodness in his heart produces good, but an evil person out of a store of evil produces evil; for from the fullness of the heart the mouth speaks.
    46 "Why do you call me, 'Lord, Lord,' but not do what I command? 47 I will show you what someone is like who comes to me, listens to my words, and acts on them.
    48 That one is like a person building a house, who dug deeply and laid the foundation on rock; when the flood came, the river burst against that house but could not shake it because it had been well built.
    49 But the one who listens and does not act is like a person who built a house on the ground without a foundation. When the river burst against it, it collapsed at once and was completely destroyed."
You can see that Christ does not deal in absolutes, he gives guidance. When he says, "Love your enemy and do good; lend without repayment" he is not saying that it is a sin to hate your enemy, or a sin to lend money with full expectation of repayment, but if you do those things, it is taking you further away from your path to God.

It seems you would not only pass judgment , but condemn those who are homosexual, as well as discriminate against them, denying them equal rights, such as marriage, being able to hold a job and have a place to live, not be spit on by Christian Conservatives, or called derogatory or foul names.

REVIEW OF INFORMATION

GOD’S PLAN

Science has now proven that those who are Homosexual, Bisexual and Transgender, were born that way, and we even know part of the genetic and biologic ways that this happens.  We have even isolate part of the Gay hereditary genetic process on gene XQ28 which some refer to as a “Gay Gene,” but this is actually on one of a set.  For example, the genetic propensity to give birth to a Sexual Minority child in one gene is passed down only on the Female side of the family line, but in another it is thought to be passed down on the paternal side.

You may have wondered how homosexuality could possibly survive tens of thousands of years of evolution, since we do not produce many offspring. It turns out the genes responsible for increase fecundity (producing an abundance of offspring) in humans is also part of the XQ28 gene set.  Larger family sizes is a big factor in evolutionary survival.

Next, let us look at NATURE and the Animal Kingdom.  So far, Homosexuality has been documented in almost 500 species of animals, and 1,500 species total, showing that sexual preference is predetermined and pervasive throughout Nature.

As proof, I have posted a list of example Animals with homosexuality, such as Penguins, the entire ape family (like Bonobo Chimpanzees & Japanese Macaques), American Bison, Giraffes, Kob Antelopes, Bottlenose Dolphins, Walrus, Gray Whale, Black Swan, Guianan-Cock-of-the-Rock, Dragonflies, etc.   If homosexuality is found throughout the natural world, and if humans are born with homosexuality, then homosexuality MUST be part of God’s plan and god’s creation.  Keep in mind that 98% of Human DNA is the same as that of a Chimpanzee.

JESUS CHRIST & THE ISSUE OF HOMOSEXUALITY

The New Testament was entirely written in Coptic Greek.  There is NO word in Coptic Greek for Homosexual, because the very idea of Homosexuality did not even exist for over 1500 years after the death of Jesus.  Same-sex sex (homosexual sex) was simply considered a part of sexuality that some men and women liked to do.  Most men and women were married, although most marriages were arranged for business or political purposes, and sex outside the marriage was typical, although the culture wanted you to be discreet about it.  Some men never married at all and shared homes with other men.  They were referred to as ‘Companions.’

Homosexual sex was also very openly practiced in the military, and since most young men of standing had to go to war at some point, or be in the army, all were exposed to it. It was so prevalent that in Greece a very famous army was comprised solely of homosexual couples (called the Sacred Band of Thebes), which stood undefeated until Alexander the Great and his Father wiped them out, then raised a monument to their bravery, which stands to this day. Plato writes that a soldier would be his bravest if fighting side-by-side with his life-partner/lover, because who would shame himself before the one he loves. Spartan armies were similar, only not with fixed couples who trained together for their lifetimes.

Jesus was born into this era, as part of the Roman Empire, in Judea. Archeologists now say that Jesus was raised in an urban city that was highly populated with Roman Garrisons (army) and Citizens, and since his father was a carpenter, most of the work would have been for Romans (carpenters then were actually well paid middle class). Jesus would have been very much exposed to Roman practices in his some 34 years of life. Additionally, he would have been aware of homosexual behavior in Hebrew society, which would have been more secretive.

This has profound implications. Jesus never once said a single negative thing about same-sex sex (homosexual sex) or the people who engaged in it.  He never said it was bad, or a sin, or not to do it.  Jesus obviously spoke of many topics he believed were important, yet Jesus said nothing of homosexual sex.  Therefore, considering how prevalent homosexual sex was in Judea, and considering that Jesus must have known about it in his lifetime, yet never said it was wrong to do, the odds are very high that Jesus did not consider it wrong to do.

THE WRITINGS OF PAUL IN THE NEW TESTAMENT & HOMOSEXUALITY

All of the Translations about homosexuality in Paul, in Romans, Corinthians and Timothy his on the translation of two words in Coptic Greek and how they are paired.  Every single bad thing said about homosexuality in the New Testament is based on these two words and how they are paired.

The Coptic Greek word Arsenokoites is translated as is translated as Homosexual Offenders in 1 Corinthians, but as Perverts in 1 Timothy (New International Version Bible). As it is possible to be a heterosexual pervert, these English terms are clearly two different things.

The Coptic Greek word Arsenokoites is translated as:
    Homosexual Offenders and Perverts (New International Version Bible - NIV) †  Homosexuals (New American Standard Bible, New Living Translation) † Sodomites (New Revised Standard Version, New King James Version).
The Coptic Greek word Malakos is translated as:
    Effeminate (King James Version, American Standard Version Bible); † Pervert (Contemporary English Version Bible); † Male Prostitutes (New Revised Standard Version Bible); † The Self-indulgent (New Jerusalem Bible).
Some translations translate Malakos and Arsenokoites as one word or phrase, such as Men Who Practice Homosexuality (English Standard Version), Homosexual Perverts (Good News Bible), or Sexual Perverts (Revised English Bible, Revised Standard Version (2nd Edition).

What does Malakos actually mean? The word is widely used in Greek texts, including the New Testament. It literally means Soft and it is used like this elsewhere in the New Testament (Matthew 11:18). It can also mean Effeminate, and it is used like this in other Greek texts. Although some gay men are effeminate, the two words are not synonyms. Not all effeminate men are gay, and very few gay men are effeminate. Being Malakos also has connotations of being wanton or unrestrained. In the first century, when Paul wrote his letters, Malakos was not a term that was applied to gay men.

It is very difficult to say exactly what Paul meant when he wrote Malakos but there is no evidence that he was referring to Same-sex Relationships of any kind, and plenty of evidence that he meant something else.

ARSENOKOITES: HOMOSEXUAL OFFENDERS?

Although the range of translations for Arsenokoites is narrower that the range for Malakos, it is still a difficult-some would say impossible-word to translate. That difficulty can be seen in the NIV’s use of two different English words to translate it. Perverts and Homosexual Offenders are two different things. Arsenokoites is used in a handful of other Greek texts from the first few centuries after Christ, and none of them really give enough context to determine what the word means.

The Penitential attributed to ‘John the Faster’ (d 595) mentions Arsenokoites in the context of Opposite-sex Relationships:
    In fact, many men even commit the sin of arsenokoites with their wives.
This important quotation shows that Arsenokoites cannot be translated to Homosexuals or any similar word. Please look at all of the texts that use Arsenokoites and related words. They are all available on the Internet. When the context gives any clue to the meaning of the word, none of these texts require that Arsenokoites means Homosexual or anything similar, and some, like the Penitential quoted above, show that it cannot have this meaning.

As with Malakos, we cannot say with certainty what Paul meant when he wrote Arsenokoites, but it is clear that it does not refer to Same-sex Relationships.

THE ETYMOLOGY OF ARSENOKOITES

It is tempting to look at the etymology of Arsenokoites to find out what it means. However, the etymology of a word gives only its history, not its meaning. In English for example, the etymology of the phrase lady killer suggests either a lady who kills, or a person who kills ladies, but it really means a man who knows how to charm ladies. The only reliable way to determine the meaning of a word is from how it is used, in what context it is used. The way Arsenokoites is used indicates that it does not mean Homosexual. However, the etymology of this word does give a clue (and it is no more than a clue) about what it means.

Arsenokoites is a compound word, formed from arseno- which means men, male humans, and -koiati, which refers to the penetrating partner in sexual intercourse. When these two parts are put together, forming a word meaning something like man-penetrator, it is not clear if it means a man who penetrates, or a man who is penetrated, or lady killer, or it could mean something completely different. We can get a little more context from the Septuagint, the Greek translation of the Old Testament.

The word Arsenokoites appears in the Septuagint, in Leviticus 20:13: “hos an koimethe meta arsenos koiten gunaikos.” It might be the case that Arsenokoites is a contraction of arsenos koiten. If it is, then Paul possibly meant to repeat the Leviticus prohibition. That restriction is not a general prohibition of male-male sex, but is a prohibition of a specific sexual act . If Leviticus is the origin of the word, and the origin of the word gives an indication of the meaning, then Arsenokoites refers to just that sexual act, and that is a sexual act that both same-sex and opposite-sex couples can practice. John the Faster’s use of Arsenokoitia supports this suggestion. Therefore, Paul’s uses of Arsenokoites are injunctions against certain types of sexual activity, not against same-sex relationships.

CONCLUSION

I can go through every Bible passage that you claim to be about homosexuality, including leviticus and Sodom, and show how they were misinterpreted and misunderstood.  As an example, if 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 could be translated as “…homosexuals…will not inherit the Kingdom of God,” or anything like that, then this debate would be over, for the Christians at least. But Arsenokoites and Malakos can’t be translated in that way. Passages like 1 Corinthians 6:1-10 and 1 Timothy 1:9-11 have nothing to say about same-sex relationships.
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:iconadventure-cat:
Adventure-Cat Featured By Owner Jan 26, 2016  Hobbyist Writer
There is no need for threats, or misusing ban features to block an opposing voice. Unless you feel your views cant stand up to a debate?  O.o

Like I said, let the people who read the work we shared, decide if it serves the Lord or themselves! If you only enforce one point of view, you also leave out an important aspect of your message. (The right to choose!)
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:iconinspiredcreativity:
inspiredcreativity Featured By Owner Jan 28, 2016  Professional Digital Artist
I wish you all the best.  I just have no time for debate. I have a mission that is too important. I have been harassed and attacked so many times by Christian fundamentalists that banning is usually the only way to make it stop.  I do not like to do it all.  Anyway, you seem nice enough and you have been far more polite and respectful compared to many others, and I thank you for that.
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:iconheroesguy:
heroesguy Featured By Owner Jan 5, 2016
The word of God is very clear homosexuality is a vile sin no matter what.
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:iconinspiredcreativity:
inspiredcreativity Featured By Owner Jan 6, 2016  Professional Digital Artist
The words of translators are clear and biased, but not the words of God, as stated by the original authors in their original languages. This is especially seen in the translations of the New Testament.  Even the Jewish Faith never interpreted stories like that of Sodom and Gomorrah (Genesis 19) to be about homosexuality.  The idea that Sodom and Gomorrah was about homosexuality was created in the 11th century by the Italian ascetic Peter Damian.  Even the Catholic church never interpreted Sodom and Gomorrah to be about homosexuality until the 11th century.  This was done falsely reinterpreting the use of one word 'Know' to be in a sexual connotation, although it is not used that way elsewhere in the Old Testament.  Therefore you have bigoted interpreters twisting words to mean things they were never intended to mean.  Understanding nomadic Jews of the time would immediately show you the falsity of that translation. 

Your statement comes from a place of ignorance and bigotry, hiding behind the name of God to justify your own sins.
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:iconheroesguy:
heroesguy Featured By Owner Jan 18, 2016
Are you even a Christian doesn't sound like it
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:iconinspiredcreativity:
inspiredcreativity Featured By Owner Jan 19, 2016  Professional Digital Artist
I am well educated in Christian theology, with a specialty in Catholic theology.  Chances are that you are the one lacking in theological education.
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:iconheroesguy:
heroesguy Featured By Owner Jan 20, 2016
Hard to beileve that since you are so wrong you are either lying or intentially  twisting the bible.
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:iconinspiredcreativity:
inspiredcreativity Featured By Owner Jan 21, 2016  Professional Digital Artist
There is a lot of literature and research available to support everything said, especially concerning Coptic Greek translation, which has been egregiously mistranslated.  In fact, since I first wrote this piece, more supporting evidence has been found, including archeological.  I will also mention that a number of mainstream Christian churches fully support what I talked about, and indeed teach that homosexual sex is not a sin, when done in the confines of a marriage, holy union, or long-term and committed relationship (where marriage is not possible).

Some of these Christian churches will ordain homosexual ministers, and some will perform homosexual marriages, such as the Episcopal Church.  The list below has grown, but I don't have time to update it:

Churches that Perform Gay Marriages, Ordain Gay Ministers, and teach that Homosexual Sex, within the confines of a Gay Marriage or Committed and Loving Relationship, IS NOT A SIN:
    The Metropolitan Community Church [MCC]
    The Episcopal Church (The United Church of Christ)
    The Evangelical Lutheran Church
    Presbyterian Church
    The Unitarian Church
    The Unitarian Universalists
    Unity School of Christianity
    Community of Christ
    Evangelical Anglican Church In America
    Reconciling Pentecostals International
    The National Catholic Church of America
    Catholic Apostolic Church in North America
    United Catholic Church
    Orthodox-Catholic Church
    Evangelical Catholic Church
    Reformed Catholic Church
    Christ Catholic Church
    Ecumenical Catholic Communion
    Liberal Catholic Church
    Independent Catholic Christian Church
    Independent Greek Orthodox Church of the United States (Greek Orthodox)
    Moravian Church
    CANADA:
    United Church of Canada: Affirming Churches Only affirmunited.ause.ca (Not Covenanting Churches)
The following are as above or at least welcoming, but based on a Church-by-Church basis, as set by the Congregation:
    Lutheran Churches
    Quaker (Religious Society of Friends)
    Pentecostal
    Christian Church (Disciples of Christ)
    Baptists
     [Very few Baptists churches are welcoming to Sexual Minorities, but some are. Go here www.awab.org to find welcoming Baptists churches. United Methodist Church
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:icontheanjuaddams:
TheAnjuAddams Featured By Owner Dec 22, 2015  Hobbyist Digital Artist
As both a devout Christian and a supporter of Gay relationships and marriage, I thank you for writing this. 
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:iconinspiredcreativity:
inspiredcreativity Featured By Owner Dec 22, 2015  Professional Digital Artist
Thank you, you are very welcome.  I assume that you also saw the companion piece: New Testament & Homosexuality  New Testament + Homosexuality by inspiredcreativity
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:iconpeteseeger:
PeteSeeger Featured By Owner Dec 29, 2015  Student Writer
There is no actual evidence that Bacchus and Sergius were gay.
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:iconinspiredcreativity:
inspiredcreativity Featured By Owner Jan 3, 2016  Professional Digital Artist
A reasonable case can be made for either argument, given the historical accounts available. This is why I presented it as a tantalizing possibility and not as a given fact.  There is no evidence of the miracle of Jesus either, or of most of what you read in the Bible.  That is where 'Faith' comes in.  Some Historical facts in the bible can be corroborated with archeology, but otherwise there are only written accounts by people, long after the fact, which may or may not be true and unbiased. Languages are not static, they constantly change.  The meaning and connotations of words and phrases can change from one generation to the next.  The only way to get a reasonably accurate translation of ancient languages is to be a scholar of the culture and language usage of the tome period in question.  This is why the current translations of modern language Bibles have so many misinterpretations.  
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:iconpeteseeger:
PeteSeeger Featured By Owner Jan 3, 2016  Student Writer
Faith in the existence of God and faith in an ancient gay relationship are two very different things.
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:iconinspiredcreativity:
inspiredcreativity Featured By Owner Jan 3, 2016  Professional Digital Artist
Faith in God is not the same as faith in translators of the Gospels, let alone Paula and other scriptures and historical documents.  A reasonable case can be made that the two were a Gay coulee, as well as a reasonable case that it is not true. Your rejection of one over the other is based in bigotry, not in logic or faith in God.
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:iconpeteseeger:
PeteSeeger Featured By Owner Jan 4, 2016  Student Writer
There is plenty of logic behind it. The Ancient Jews were very much opposed to homosexuality and as the Church fathers were originally Jews, it's unlikely that they would have tolerated sanctioned gay relationships in their ranks.
And Gospel transaltiosn have nothing to do with this.
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:iconinspiredcreativity:
inspiredcreativity Featured By Owner Jan 5, 2016  Professional Digital Artist
As to what the ancient Jews believed and practiced, you must rely on translations again.  I cover this in Old Testament + Homosexuality by inspiredcreativity  Old Testament + Homosexuality

I laid out 'some' of the evidence supporting the theory that Bergius and Bacchus were Gay in New Testament + Homosexuality by inspiredcreativity  New Testament + Homosexuality. However, to see more information:

A fast easy way to find some more references and a bibliography is by going to en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sergius_…

You can get an entire book on it titled Same-Sex Unions in Premodern Europe by John Boswell, 412 pages smile.amazon.com/Same-Sex-Unio… and you can buy it used for as little as $1.32.
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(1 Reply)
:iconsampea:
sampea Featured By Owner Oct 30, 2015
You should correct the word ''Introdiction'', just saying.
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:iconinspiredcreativity:
inspiredcreativity Featured By Owner Oct 31, 2015  Professional Digital Artist
Hi, thanks.  I am aware of the mistake.  I just have had no time to re-author it and then update the DA posting. However, it is in my inbox to do.
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Flagged as Spam
:iconinspiredcreativity:
inspiredcreativity Featured By Owner Sep 1, 2015  Professional Digital Artist
Hi, you must be Canadian, lol.  I was raised Catholic, but just after I turned 13, our priest told us Altar Boys, "Boys who are attracted to other boys are Abominations in the eyes of God and doomed to burn for all eternity in the everlasting fires of Gahanna," and that shattered my faith.  Day later I tried to kill myself.  I am sure the priest, had he known, would have felt righteous and justified.

Interestingly, the Catholic Catechism now agrees that people are born Homosexual (since the science is so solid), which you would think proves it must be part of God's plan (if one believes in Gods).  But no, the Church still claims that homosexual sex is a sin, and God only made you homosexual as a test of your faith, to see if you would stay celibate all your life.  Good Grief…

You might also find this of interest:  SODOM DESTROYED ON 6-29-3129BC
SODOM & GOMORRAH DESTROYED BY ASTEROID ON 6-29-3129 BCE
Sodom and Gomorra were two ancient Early-Bronze-Age cities in a fertile region of the Middle East, near the Dead Sea.  The time is shortly before dawn on 6-29-3129 BCE, and 600 miles (966 Km) from Sodom & Gomorrah, there are two Samarian Astronomers observing the skies.  They observed a fiery body traveling across the night sky.  They inscribed its path and it relative course and position against the stars on a clay disk, called a Planisphere.  Dr. Hempsall and Alan Bond deciphered the clay disk and used computers to recreate the night sky thousands of years ago. They pinpointed the sighting of the ancient astronomers to shortly before dawn on June 29 in the year 3123 B.C.
The asteroid, which was about 1.25 Km (0.78 Miles) in diameter, exploded above the ground with a force of a 10,000 megaton nuclear weapon (100 times more powerful than any nuclear weapon on earth). 
 SODOM DESTROYED ON 6-29-3129BC

If you have any freinds who are Christian and in need of help reconciling their Christianity with their Homosexuality, they might find this of some help: New Testament + Homosexuality by inspiredcreativity New Testament & Homosexuality
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:iconcodyrush:
codyrush Featured By Owner Jun 6, 2015  Student Filmographer
 That's not homosexuality. That's Abraham sacrificing his son, Isaac.
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:iconinspiredcreativity:
inspiredcreativity Featured By Owner Jun 7, 2015  Professional Digital Artist
The image in question, as well as the images within the PDF file for The Old Testament and Homosexuality are all images related to the Old Testament.


If you want to know the truth about The New Testament & Homosexuality and The Old Testament & Homosexuality, you can read them here: New Testament + Homosexuality by inspiredcreativity   and Old Testament + Homosexuality by inspiredcreativity
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:iconxxanimexchocolatexx:
xxAnimexChocolatexx Featured By Owner Mar 30, 2015
You know, oddly enough with many extremists using the Bible (especially the Livitus and Sodom one) as an excuse for justification of discrimination against gay, they never verify why homosexual should be burn in hell PERSONALLY aside from using this bullcrap, "Because God create man and a woman blah blah blah." They were stupid enough to not know they were created to produce as people with the same-sex relation cannot reproduce. Also, didn't people back in old times used the Bible as an excuse to enslave the black people by using this "black ham" lies about Noah's son. If people realize that this is wrong to excuse for black slavery, then they should know the flaw they have of using the Livitus and Sodom stories against homosexual.

About God being cruel and evil, i wouldn't argue about that. In my opinion, calling God being merciful and loving completely is really contradicting. In the Bible, God did admit of being the God of evil and darkness (Isaiah 45:7,
2 Kings 6:33). Being the monotheistic He is, it makes sense because God create everything. However, it's saddening that the Christians, Muslims, and arguably others who don't read much into the passage about God kinda ignored that part and preach that God is the god of "everything good" in their holy prayer which really He also create the bad side. No wonder people questioned, "Oh, if God is really compassionate and merciful, why does he allow evil existed?" Additionally, while the Christians and Muslims view God to be loving and good, the Jewish viewed God to be cruel and unforgiving which may explained the contradictions on how God was like between the Old Testament and the New Testament.

While my religion class was reading the Sodom story, i thought i'm expecting some homophobic tone in the passage with the controversy it has been given due to it. When i finished reading it, i was confused because it didn't mention about homosexuality nor the men attempting to rape the angels. So i look into your passage and it clear my confusion, i'm grateful about it. To add some info to it, weren't the angel's gender never revealed in the Bible? Most modern media depicted angels to be feminine and womanlike, but forget that the angel's gender never reveal. The old times depicted the angels to be masculine and warlike which doesn't help. Angels in the Bible were called "He", but obviously in terms of being dominant just like how God was often called "He". Thus, the truth on whether the men want to rape, have sex (consensual), or physically attack the angels make the interpretation more questionable, the same way whether the men are gay or not.
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:iconinspiredcreativity:
inspiredcreativity Featured By Owner Mar 31, 2015  Professional Digital Artist
Now that you have read the story of Sodom & Gomorrah, I think you will find this faction:  SODOM DESTROYED ON 6-29-3129BC
SODOM & GOMORRAH DESTROYED BY ASTEROID ON 6-29-3129 BCE
Sodom and Gomorra were two ancient Early-Bronze-Age cities in a fertile region of the Middle East, near the Dead Sea.  The time is shortly before dawn on 6-29-3129 BCE, and 600 miles (966 Km) from Sodom & Gomorrah, there are two Samarian Astronomers observing the skies.  They observed a fiery body traveling across the night sky.  They inscribed its path and it relative course and position against the stars on a clay disk, called a Planisphere.  Dr. Hempsall and Alan Bond deciphered the clay disk and used computers to recreate the night sky thousands of years ago. They pinpointed the sighting of the ancient astronomers to shortly before dawn on June 29 in the year 3123 B.C.
The asteroid, which was about 1.25 Km (0.78 Miles) in diameter, exploded above the ground with a force of a 10,000 megaton nuclear weapon (100 times more powerful than any nuclear weapon on earth). 
SODOM DESTROYED ON 6-29-3129BC

The original Christian religion, after the death of Jesus, became very fractured in who believed what.  The gnostics, of the eastern church, wherever inclusive of women and in fact had women priests.  They were very spiritual and did not have a hierarchal power structure like the western church had.  There also believed Jesus to be the son of god, but not dene.  The western church came up with the Holy trinity, claimed that jesus was divine. When Constantine battle control of the Roman Empire, it was very fractured with multiple pagan Gods and temples.  Constantine decided to unite the fractured and failing empire under one religion, as a uniting factor.  He chose Christianity.  the story of his conversion was a lie.  He refused both conversion and baptism until his death, when it was done to him as he died.

But Emperor Constantine had a problem, the Christian church was fractured in two at this point, the Western and Eastern churches.  Constantine order bishops from all over the roman empire to convene in Nicea, which became known as the "First Council of Nicea."  But the Eastern lands were very far away and the eastern church not much represented.  Constantine wanted the Western church to prevail because it was Patriarchal (run by men, power in the hands of men), it had a hierarchal power structure similar to Roman power structure, making the church easier for the Romans to control, and Western Christianity supported slavery, a key to Roman prosperity.  The result of the First Counsel of Nicea was that the Gnostics were told to convert to Western beliefs or die.  The who did not convert were hunted and killed, all of their teachings burned and banned.  It was genocide.

The church had only one place for women, as servants, to become "Brides of Christ" and not allowed an power of their own. The roman Emperors had a lot of influence on the early Chirstian church, which man deny now, but it is part of the historical record.

Nothing in the New Testament speaks against Slavery, and a number of passages support slavery, which was very much a part of life in Judea, Galilee, and in the rest of the Roman Empire during New Testament times, and up to the 19th century. While in prison, Paul met a runaway slave, Onesimus, the property of a Christian, presumably Pheliemon, and ordered him back to his owner (see Paul: Letter to Philemon).

In the King James Bible, the word for SLAVE was replaced by Servant or Maid, a very deliberate deception. In the New Testament, you can find Paul’s infamous instruction that slaves to obey their owners in the same way that they obey Christ (Ephesians 6:5-9). In Matthew 18:25, people in debt, and their children, should be sold to make payment. In Mark 14:66, Priests owned slaves. Colossians 4:1 and 1 Timothy 6:1-3 give instructions to slaves and slave owners in proper behavior. There are more passages...

THE LITTLE ICE AGE: Western Europe experienced a general cooling of the climate between the years 1150 and 1460 and a very cold climate between 1560 and 1850 that brought dire consequences to its peoples. The colder weather impacted agriculture, health, economics, social strife, emigration, and even art and literature. This even helped to set up perfect conditions for the Bubonic Plague to strike and decimate the population.  Increased glaciation and storms also had a devastating affect on those that lived near glaciers and the sea.

Attendance at churches was down, which meant collections of money was down. The Catholic Church, starting in the 11th Century, responded by creating common evil enemies that people would fear, thus bringing them back into the fold. Going after Homosexuals and Pagans was a first step. But conditions got worse. Starvation, hunger, disease, lawlessness and violence increased.

Also in the 11th century, Pope Innocent III (1160-1216) proclaimed he had a vision from God that the Cathari were heretic and declared Holy War against them, killing (including burning at the stake), approximately 40,000 children, women and men, all in the name of God. It was a time to find others to blame for the problems of the day, and to help the Church consolidate power.

In 1484, Pope Innocent VIII blamed the Little Ice Age on witches, leading to centuries of innocent women and men being burned at the stake, for nothing.  He had inquisitors Heinrich Kramer and Jacobus Sprenger systemize the persecution of witches. He said they could raise hailstorms, lightning, violent storms, wretched cold…  He did it because people were giving less money to the church and fewer people were going to church.

The Christianization of Pagan Holidays

Emperor Constantine went further by incorporated the Pagan holidays and festivals into the Christian church ritual—attracting the Pagans, but he gave the holidays and festivals new "Christian" names and identities—thus appeasing the Christians. Christmas, Easter and Sunday services (which were normally celebrated on the Sabbath, Saturday) were all actually Pagan holidays and celebrations.

Early Christian believers kept Saturday as the Sabbath until March 7, 321 CE when Emperor Constantine passed a law requiring believers to worship on Sunday, the day the pagans worshipped the sun-god. Believers still kept Saturday as the Sabbath until another law was passed eleven years later. This law signed into decree by Emperor Constantine forbid believers to worship on the Sabbath (Saturday) and it was punishable by death by the Catholic Church. Many believers were burned to death by the Catholic Church for keeping the Sabbath.

Jesus was not even born in the winter, let alone December 25th (winter solstice), which was a major Pagan holiday shared between many Pagan faiths, with roots from the Persians, Babylon, Arabia and Egypt. Every sun-god was born on December 25th. Amun-Ra, Horus, Mithra, Tammuz, and Zeus were born on December 25th. Yule is the Babylonian name for Infant, in the Pagan festival commemorating the figurative birthday of the sun and the renewal of its course. The Yule occult colors are Red & Green.

The Christmas tree is Nimrod revived—the slain god come to life again. The Christmas tree was equally common in Pagan Rome and Pagan Egypt. The mistletoe branch symbolized "the man, the branch" and was regarded as a divine branch, a Babylonian representation of the true Messiah. Both mistletoe and holly were considered fertility plants by the pagans. Candles which are lit on Christmas Eve and used throughout the festival season, were equally lighted by the Pagans on the eve of the festival of the Babylonian god, to do honor to him.

Easter, the Easter Bunny and eggs are all rooted in Pagan rituals/celebrations/holidays. One mythological legend says that sometime after Semiramis died, a huge egg dropped from heaven. Out of the egg came a re-incarnated Semiramis, now a goddess. The Babylonian Talmud refers to her as Ishtar, or Easter. The forty days of Lent symbolize one day for each year of Tammuz' life. This period of time is celebrated in the "Christian" church by giving up something to mourn the death of Tammuz, the son of the pagan goddess Semiramis! The (Easter) bunny is the oldest pagan symbol of fertility—Semiramis. The date of Easter is also celebrated by the Druids. In ancient times, eggs were used in the religious rites of the Egyptians and the Greeks, and were hung up for mystic purposes in their temples… The classic poets are full of the fable of the mystic egg of the Babylonians.

Even now, as you see Christianity practiced in Africa, south America, Australia, and other areas, you will see the roots of their Pagan cultures embedded in their Christian traditions.
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:iconlorado69:
Lorado69 Featured By Owner Jan 19, 2015  Hobbyist General Artist
Nature says two men can't make babies (the primary end of intercourse)...
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:iconinspiredcreativity:
inspiredcreativity Featured By Owner Jan 21, 2015  Professional Digital Artist
Actually, two men can make a baby. There is now a way to convert a sperm to an egg, then you use the sperm from the other man and use a surrogate for the birth.  God dd not but humans on the planet for the sole purpose of making babies.  That would make heterosexuals nothing but breeders, like cows and bulls.  There are a lot of heterosexual people on this planet who are not breeding children.  The catholic church says that if you ever have sex without the intent to produce a baby, you are in sin.  Look at the Philippines to see the results of that view and no birth control.  They can no longer feed themselves.  They need more gay people to slow down population over-breeding. The earth has only so much in the way of resources.  In my trips to New Zealand, I did not meet any narrow-minded minded people, but then I was pretty much centered in Auckland.  I found people there to be very friendly and hospitable. 
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:iconlorado69:
Lorado69 Featured By Owner Jan 21, 2015  Hobbyist General Artist
The Catholic Church does not state that "if you ever have sex without the intent to produce a baby, you are in sin." That would mean no sex during pregnancy or after menopause. That statement is completely nonsensical. 

New Zealanders are actually very narrow-minded. The majority believe everything the media tells them. They know little outside of that. The Euthanasia debate is a good example. But they are friendly for sure - especially in most parts of Auckland.

Two men, naturally, can not make babies. Sure, science may find a strange way, but the same goes for cloning - it is not what nature intended at all. 


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:iconcefio:
Cefio Featured By Owner Feb 1, 2015
You're an idiot. Strawberries clone themselves. Science has nothing
to do with that. NATURE AT ITS FINEST RIGHT THERE.
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:iconinspiredcreativity:
inspiredcreativity Featured By Owner Jan 23, 2015  Professional Digital Artist
I was going to be a priest, so I studied this a great deal.  I stated the official stance, although obviously no one follows it.  Did you know the Catholic Catechism states that people are born homosexuals? It goes on to say that even though they are born that way, they must remain celibate, but they could no longer refute the science, which is overwhelming.  They have a problem getting around the idea that if God does not make mistakes then why did God put homosexuality into the human genome in such a way that it survives against evolutionary pressure.  Obviously is part of God's intent.  The church trued to get around this by saying that this is the burden god has given homosexuals, as a test of their faith, although God does not give anyone else this sort of test of faith.

Two men make babies to have a family just like anyone else.  However, most adopt either babies or older children.  I was a foster Father and I can adopt babies and children, where so many heterosexual people will not, leaving large numbers of children in orphanages and foster homes and group homes.  Children over age are considered non-adoptable because people simply do not want older children.  There is a black market in babies, because straight people generally only want babies.  It is a good thing the Sexual Minority Community is stepping up to do what heterosexual people will not.
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:iconraritwirules15:
RariTwirules15 Featured By Owner Jun 21, 2015  Hobbyist Artist
I may not know a lot about religion, but I think God created heterosexuality and other sexualities that allow you to be attracted to the opposite sex for repopulation.

I think he created homosexuality and other sexualities that allow you to be attracted to the opposite sex for population control.
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:iconinspiredcreativity:
inspiredcreativity Featured By Owner Jun 21, 2015  Professional Digital Artist
Whatever the reasons might be, homosexuality is buried deep in the genome of not only humanity, but also in the animal kingdom, so it must be part of the design for a reason.  For example, homosexuality is tied to the set of genes controlling family fecundity.  Fecundity means to be capable of producing an abundance of offspring.  In other words, families with genes to produce many children that survive, also carry the genes for homosexuality. This helps perpetuate homosexuality, despite the fact that most homosexuals do not produce offspring.  A propensity to produce homosexual boys is passed down on the X -chromosome, the female side only, from mother to daughter.
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:iconlorado69:
Lorado69 Featured By Owner Jan 23, 2015  Hobbyist General Artist
Not according to traditional catechisms such as the Catechism of the Council of Trent. Modern catechisms (those written post Vatican II) are full of things the Church never taught as well as a tonne of ambiguous language which naturally leads to multiple interpretations. These modern catechisms are to be avoided if people are after the authentic teachings of the Church.
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:iconinspiredcreativity:
inspiredcreativity Featured By Owner Jan 25, 2015  Professional Digital Artist
As said by a typical radical fundamentalist out of touch with reality. When you talk about the authentic teachings of the Catholic church, I suggest you refer to the words of Jesus Christ, as witness by Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, not the thousands of pages of church dogma, which are the words of mankind daring to speak for God. In fact, every atrocity imaginable by mankind has been committed by the catholic church, all in the name of God, all done by fallible men and women.

If you really want to dig into church history, take a look at the large influence on church teachings and the  assembly of the bible by the roman emperors, starting with Constantine and the fist Council of Nicea, as well as the huge disagreement even about the holy trinity and if Jesus, as the son of god, was actually divine.  the we can go into the genocide committed by the Catholic church or the mass corruption of the Popes, especially around purchasing indulgences , church positions, annulments even after consummating a marriage, and on and on.

Pope Innocent III (1160-1216) proclaimed he had a vision from God that the Cathari were heretic and declared Holy War against them, killing (including burning at the stake), approximately 40,000 children, women and men, all in the name of God. It was a time to find others to blame for the problems of the day, and to help the Church consolidate power.  In 1484, Pope Innocent VIII blamed the Little Ice Age on witches, leading to centuries of innocent women and men being burned at the stake, for nothing.  He had inquisitors Heinrich Kramer and Jacobus Sprenger systemize the persecution of witches. He said they could raise hailstorms, lightning, violent storms, wretched cold…

The so called original teachings of the Catholic church were based in IGNORANCE and written by by the ignorant over a very long period of time, necessitation the Vatican Council II to try to clean up the mess.


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:iconlorado69:
Lorado69 Featured By Owner Jan 26, 2015  Hobbyist General Artist
Every atrocity imaginable has been done by all mankind. All. Judging the Church by some corrupt individuals is silly. It is those people who should be judged. It's like saying the whole Church is bad because of the atrocities committed on little boys by homosexuals who have infiltrated the priesthood (if you can even call those animals "priests"). 

Want to talk about atrocities? How about the American war-mongering presidents of late? Obama, Bush, etc. Obama bombs civilians with drones. The US committed the biggest terrorist act in all of history: Hiroshima: the killing of over 150,000 innocent civilians in the most horrible manner. How about the abortion industry murdering millions of defenseless babies every year? How about the Muslim wars in the Middle East that have been going on since forever and that are being brought to Europe? How about the pornography industry and its impact on society? All mankind is to blame for evil. Not just individuals claiming to do things in the name of the Church. History is full of evil people like that.

The original and true teaching of the Church will always be hated by the world and the world's followers - Christ said that often enough. It is no surprise that there is so much hatred toward Her. But God will triumph over ignorance and ill-informed hatred. As they say, "haters gonna hate". Do not judge the Church on the acts of some evil men - otherwise every institution in the entire world must be judged so - including the homosexual lobby.

"If the world hates you, remember that it hated Me first". And you think Christ's plan was to be buddy-buddy with the world?? Are you serious? Think again. The Church is at war with the powers of darkness. Liberals and modernists are fighting too. I'll let you guess which side they're on. (Hint: it sure as heck isn't Our Lord's side!)
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:iconinspiredcreativity:
inspiredcreativity Featured By Owner Jan 27, 2015  Professional Digital Artist
Do you not realize that priests molest more girls than boys? In fact, by percentage of population, and by actual count, more girls are molested by heterosexual men than boys are molested by homosexual men.  This means that the rate of pedophilia is higher in heterosexual men than in homosexual men. The rape of girls by priests was also covered up, worldwide, by the Catholic church and was once a big scandal in its own.  The priesthood attracts PEDOPHILES, both homosexual and heterosexual. 

Next, the atrocities I speak of were ordered by Popes, bishops and other church officials, the very people who wrote the theology of the catholic church, its catechism, it rules and enforcement, all in the name of church and in the name of God.  If the people who wrote the theology are curt, the theology is likely corrupt.  Paul and Peter fought of theology and Peter, the supposed rock of the church, lost.

The original and true teachings of Jesus have been well received in history, other than the brief period after the death of Jesus, with persecution by the Romans. Even Mohamed embraced most of the teachings of Jesus and speaks of him and his teachings in the Qur'an. I do not blame the teachings of Jesus for all of the evil that has happened in his name, but I do blame those who then distorted the teachings of Jesus, including Paul and the Catholic church, as being directly responsible for much of the evil done in the lost 2000 years.  When it comes to the evil acts perpetrated since the birth of Jesus, the vast majority of it falls to the hands of Christian and Muslims, when compared to the other religions of the world. 

I fully agree the humanity itself is more evil and corrupt and good. 

When you and others speak "war with the powers of darkness" and Christian warriors, you go against the very teachings of Jesus.  You incite violence and justification for violence and discriminate and the harming of others, in the name of God.  The very word 'WAR' is about conflict, violence, hostility, combat, fighting.  In fact, as a Christian, your first duty is to your own soul, before you start pointing the finger at the wrongdoing of others, as you should know if you have carefully read the words of Jesus. 

To understand want to know what Christianity is truly about, I highly suggest you read the Two Great Commandments (Matthew 22), The Sermon on the Mount (Matthew 5), and
 Sermon on the Plain (Luke 6).  In fact, when you actually read Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, you will that many of the teachings of the Catholic church do not stem from the words of Jesus, and at times are in conflict with the message of Jesus.

MATTHEW 22 [The New American Bible]

36 "Teacher, 21 which commandment in the law is the greatest?"

37 He said to him, 22 "You shall love the Lord, your God, with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.

38 This is the greatest and the first commandment.

39 The second is like it: 23 You shall love your neighbor as yourself.

40 24 The whole law and the prophets depend on these two commandments."

Technically, you need no other rules in your religion than these two Great Commandments. Christ says that ALL of the law of the Old Testament and New Testament DEPEND on those TWO GREAT COMMANDMENTS. Obviously, if you love God and you Love your neighbor, you will not rape, covet, steal, lie, discriminate against them for being Gay, or any other of it.  But this is not good enough for people.  People demand to know EXACTLY what to do and what not to do to get in the pearly gates of Heaven.  People do not NEED tons of rules, but people WANT tons of rules to guide them. However, there is a huge problem with focusing on the detailed rules of what to do and what not to do.

You can follow every rule of the Catholic church, avoid all sin, give to charity and sill be denied heaven, unless you love your fellow mankind and God.

You speak a language of hate and intolerance, as does the Catholic church and some other Christian Churches.  You calling to not hate the sinner, yet your actions and words are those of hate, and your actions and words felt in the death, torture, violence and discrimination against an entire class of people.

Half of all boys who kill themselves or attempt to kill them are homosexual or bisexual, and they are driven to suicide by people like you, by your intolerance, discrimination and hate.  Yes, words can kill and your words can kill, but you wildest wash your hands of the blood, like 
Pontius Pilate, refusing to take responsibility.  You will have to answer for it.

Also, while you read Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, very carefully, note that Jesus does not once hint at or talk of homosexual sex or same-sex sex as being a bad thing, in any way, anywhere in his words.  this is significant since he was born and raised in Judea, part of the Roman Empire, living in an urban city heavily populated by Roman citizens and Roman Garrisons , who openly practiced homosexual sex as part of their normal sexual practices. It was also practiced by the Hebrews as well, of course, albeit less openly. In his 34 to 35 years of life he had to have know about because it was all over the walls of the cities in graffiti (very popular then) and something practiced all around him, YET, Jesus chose to never mention it once, while other things he mentioned multiple times.  You can argue that just because he does not mention something is wrong does not mean it is right, but in this case, when something is blatantly in his face, if it was an issue, he would have said something.  He does talk about adultery, and that would apply to ALL people, gay or straight.

Paul never mentions homosexuality or same-sex sex either, but his words were mistranslated into Latin and later into the other languages.  The is easily verified by scholars of Coptic Greek and of the Judaen culture of the time of Jesus. The Catholic church is so vested in the lie that it feels it cannot allow the truth. 

I fully agree that not all Catholics and Christians are bad.  I do say the Catholic church is deeply corrupt in both theology and in practice.  I have seen it from the inside out.

Next, you once again discriminate against a class of people, being a bigot, when you use the term "liberal" as you do.  When i talk about Christians and Catholics, I do not lump them altogether.  I do challenge the theology and the practice of some churches and religions, scudding Christianity, Islam, Hinduism and Buddhism.  PEOPLE corrupt teachings.  You take the beautiful message of Jesus and turn it into hate and intolerance, into harming others and then hiding behind Jesus to justify it.

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(1 Reply)
:iconxxanimus-spiesxx:
XxAnimus-SpiesxX Featured By Owner Jan 15, 2015
I am an atheist homosexual, and it warms my icy black heart to see that Christians can love homosexuals too~
<3
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:iconrhunel:
rhunel Featured By Owner Edited Jan 20, 2016   General Artist
LOL.  It is perhaps the first step towards finding Christ acceptable, that His followers do not set up stumbling blocks to keep you from drawing near to God.  Let it be between you and God, your sexuality.  Jesus says to the woman caught in adultery, "Has no one condemned you?  Neither do I condemn you"  But He also told her to go and sin no more.  I have not received any divine inspiration condemning homosexuals.  I believe we should love and treat others as we would like to be treated.  In my personal life I have known many (although I am not one) and find, being an artist and a writer, it is more common among creative people, artists like myself.  I also feel I would be much poorer in my spirit, if I condemned these people, for it is God's grace to know Him, I too was blind to His existence for a time.  We cannot of our own selves come to Him, except that we first love.  John 14:21 & John 14:23.
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:iconxxanimus-spiesxx:
XxAnimus-SpiesxX Featured By Owner Jan 20, 2016
Uh

Thanks?
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:iconrhunel:
rhunel Featured By Owner Jan 21, 2016   General Artist
I know.  I get long winded.  You're Welcome Kero Keroppi (Free) 
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:iconinspiredcreativity:
inspiredcreativity Featured By Owner Jan 17, 2015  Professional Digital Artist
I am a Humanist Homosexual (humanism being a form of atheism), and I find that bigotry is even found within the Sexual Minority Community, and even against each other.  Alas Hate is all around us.  I n my experience, most Christians who are homophobic are that way because it was taught to them, so we are objectified, seen not as individual humans but rather those things that are evil perverts, child molester, disgusting, etc.  Often, once they meet us and get to know us as people, they lose their homophobia.  Still, it is sad to know people who may then say, "I love you as a friend, and am sad you will burn in hell."  These are people who accept that you are a good person, but still believe the propaganda and lies perpetrated by some churches, such as the Catholic church.

It is particularly upsetting to see bigotry by homosexuals against bisexuals, Gay men against Lesbians, Lesbians agains Gay men, Jocks against effeminate and on and on. 
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:iconsunao17:
Sunao17 Featured By Owner Jan 14, 2015  Student Traditional Artist
I watched this movie "The Secrets" or "Ha Sodot" in hebrew, about two students of Tzfat, where they teach young orthodox women the Torah, who fell in love. One of them was a wise student of Torah, she learned it so well that when the other girl, who didn't know the text so well, said to her that what they did is a sin, the wise student told her that it wasn't. Let's be clear about how the wise student was: very conservative, very serious, an erudite who followed jewish's laws every day at every hour, every minute of her life. One might assume she was homophobic for this, but she told the other girl that they didn't commit a sin, because the sacred texts only said that "sperm waste" was a sin, and women didn't have sperm, so women can't commit sin if they lie with another woman.

That resolution was such a surprise, and a learning about jewish laws that until now it surprises me. This young girl took advantage of the literal reading of the sacred texts to love abother woman without guilt.
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:iconinspiredcreativity:
inspiredcreativity Featured By Owner Jan 15, 2015  Professional Digital Artist
Thank you for the story. It is very interesting.
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